What drives you crazy the most about Korean?

[kimchiandsoju]

For me its Honorifics and Counters.



Honorifics. because if you want to politely say "Eat" and you say 먹으세요 you will be WRONG. And if you want to politely tell somebody to sleep and you say 자세요 you will be WRONG. And who knows how many honorific verbs are hiding in the shadows? Its enough to drive me insane. If it was just adding 시 to a verb I would be OK, but there are so many rules it makes me want to know only people my exact same age!


Why oh why did the Korean people a loooong time ago decided that different things needed different counters? Why couldn't they just say "one of this and 3 of that"? Why does a horse need a different counter than a spoon? I'll never be able to remember them all.

Those 2 just kill me the most. The honorifics one is the worst because people will take it personally if you screw up. If you use the wrong counter when counting a car nobody will hit you with their cane.

What frustrates you the most?

[Chris1]

For me, it's the endless supply of 한자 words that seem to have almost exactly the same meaning.

예측/예상
내역/명세
포근/폭신
결별/작별
냉정/냉랭
개발/발전
etc.etc....

So frustrating...

[erich]

What really drives me crazy is the amount of vocabulary needed until you can get along with things like: TV, radio, newspapers, internet, books and whatever other medium. Especially reading frustrates me because I usually learn languages (and extend my vocabulary) while reading. In Korean this is simply not possible (at my current level) because there's just too many words to express basic things. Last time I tried, I wanted to read a Children's book. After deciphering (I cannot even say "reading" the first 4 pages, (and that's around 5-10 lines of tall type per page) I already had a list of around 100 totally unknown words (some of which were not even in the dictionary). I didn't count the words which I should have known but had forgotten...

[kimchiandsoju]

Good point about the news... Its like a whole other language.

For example, you could witness a robbery in Korea, describe what you saw in detail to the police in conversational Korean, and then open up a newspaper talking about the same thing and not understand most of it.

I think I would be more than satisfied if I could master converstational Korean and not be able to read a newspaper or understand what they say on the TV news.

[holdfast]

kimchiandsoju: if you think about it, english has a lot of counters too, just not quite as many. sheets of paper, cups of coffee, etc.. it is still confusing, though, i agree ^^

chris: i guess i am exactly the opposite - this makes my life a lot easier! hehe.. i can guess what a lot of words mean from knowing what other hanja words mean. i can't read any of the actual hanja characters, but i know a lot of hanja words. there are a lot of single hanja with similar meanings, so they can be kind of easy to figure out. for example: 열심, 열중, 열정, 열망, 열애 etc.. are all very similar (passion, fervor, ardent desire, etc). 열 means hot and 심 means heart, 중 means center, 정 means feeling/compassion, 망 means hope/wish, 애 means love, etc.. or even 정열 which is just switched around (they do that a lot, i've noticed). ^^

i think the most difficult thing for me is the two separate number systems. it's not really that difficult, i suppose, but if you use the wrong kind of number, other people have no idea what you are talking about. the other day i was trying to explain to my friend that another friend of ours has 8 roomates, and i said "룸매이트 발명 있어" but he had no idea what i was talking about. finally it came out that i meant "룸매이트 여덟명 있어" but it didn't even cross his mind that i might have meant that, because 발명 just doesn't make sense, apparently. but it doesn't help that i am dyslexic, and extremely dyslexic with numbers, so it's hard enough for me to count in english - haha!

and kimchiandsoju, i am with you on the honorifics. it is still very confusing for me too. 저는 어른 공포증이 있어 가지고요 ㅋㅋㅋ (i have "elder phobia.") i am not really afraid of saying something wrong, i am just afraid that no one will correct me and then they will just think i'm trying to be rude. but i'm not, i promise!

[Chris1]

Emily: My point was that the words I listed have very similar are almost identical meanings. I completely agree with you about how 한자 makes life a lot easier, but there are a lot of different words that seem almost identical.

I've asked so many Koreans about some of those differences only to be met woth blank stares! 내역 and 명세 in particular. If there's anyone that can help me with these two, that'd be great! I've been in and out of the 옥편 too.

[hyunwoo]

Chris

내역 and 명세 are the same thing basically, and they are almost always interchangeable, but the nuance that each word has is just slightly different. 내역 is the content itself, and 명세 is the action. So while there isn't much difference between a 내역서 and a 명세서, to me 내역 gives off the nuance of referring to the content, and 명세 referring to the action of 명세하다.

[holdfast]

Emily: My point was that the words I listed have very similar are almost identical meanings. I completely agree with you about how 한자 makes life a lot easier, but there are a lot of different words that seem almost identical.

ah, yes, i understand what you mean now hehe! i didn't actually read over your examples very thoroughly... 미안해요~~~

[kimchiandsoju]

kimchiandsoju: if you think about it, english has a lot of counters too, just not quite as many. sheets of paper, cups of coffee, etc.. it is still confusing, though, i agree ^^

hmmm. I never really thought of that way. I'm trying to think of a few more and I'm drawing a blank. Can you name some more? Only because I'm curious now

[matthew254]

hmmm. I never really thought of that way. I'm trying to think of a few more and I'm drawing a blank. Can you name some more? Only because I'm curious now

ears of corn, barrels of hay, spools of thread, bolts of fabric, jugs of milk, cartons of cigarettes, and reems of paper come to mind.

[Chriss]

hmmm. I never really thought of that way. I'm trying to think of a few more and I'm drawing a blank. Can you name some more? Only because I'm curious now

Not to mention the ridiculous amount of counters for groups of animals,such as a pride of lion, a pack of wolves, etc. (there are so many that I've not taken the time to learn - not that I've really seen most of them anywhere).

---

What annoys me about Korean.... everything? There's just so much to learn that I always feel like I'm running uphill. Although, I think vocabulary is perhaps the largest problem (words don't want to stick), and I am really having a hard time with the topic, subject, and object marking particles.

[gillesvdp]

What really drives me crazy is the amount of vocabulary needed until you can get along with things like: TV, radio, newspapers, internet, books and whatever other medium. Especially reading frustrates me because I usually learn languages (and extend my vocabulary) while reading. In Korean this is simply not possible (at my current level) because there's just too many words to express basic things. Last time I tried, I wanted to read a Children's book. After deciphering (I cannot even say "reading" the first 4 pages, (and that's around 5-10 lines of tall type per page) I already had a list of around 100 totally unknown words (some of which were not even in the dictionary). I didn't count the words which I should have known but had forgotten...

I totally agree with you.

Actually I heard that in Western languages, one needs about 6000 words to reach somewhat proficiency. I know that 6000 words it also the target of the Korean language program of 경회대학교.
Is there any parallel between the 2 numbers? Or does one need more words in Korean than in Western languages to be proficient?

[javiskefka]

hmmm. I never really thought of that way. I'm trying to think of a few more and I'm drawing a blank. Can you name some more? Only because I'm curious now

Not to mention the ridiculous amount of counters for groups of animals,such as a pride of lion, a pack of wolves, etc. (there are so many that I've not taken the time to learn - not that I've really seen most of them anywhere).

Here's a page on English collective nouns: http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/collnoun.htm. Some of them are so amusing that they've got to be jokes, though (exaltation of larks, implausibility of gnus, blessing of unicorns).

I find speech levels bothersome in Korean, simply because it's a cultural concept that's pretty alien to me. I would be content if everyone just talked in neutral politeness level.

[gillesvdp]

With regards to the politeness level, I was also bothered by it at the beginning.
But then I realized that whenever I speak in the languages I am fluent in, I also choose the words I use depending on whom I am speaking to.

Just to make a parallel between 먹다 and 드시다 and their French equivalents, I would use 'bouffer' (for friends, impolite), 'manger' (neutral, for everybody) or 'se sustenter' (very polite, old fashioned).

Therefore I do not consider the politeness levels to be something specific to the Korean language anymore.

[cheri]

Here's a page on English collective nouns: http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/collnoun.htm. Some of them are so amusing that they've got to be jokes, though (exaltation of larks, implausibility of gnus, blessing of unicorns).

That's hilarious! Who knew. "An impatience of wives"???

Therefore I do not consider the politeness levels to be something specific to the Korean language anymore.

I agree. It's not as rigid or organized, but it definitely exists even in English. One could even argue that since it's a bit grey, it's harder to pick up on.

That having been said, maybe this is a silly Q, but when you're combining verbs, how do you know how many times to you have add -시? For example, 가시고 싶으세요? vs 가고 싶으세요? Or ~하시려고 하셨어요 vs 하려고 하셨어요... I've seen both, and I'm not sure what the real difference is... is the former that much more polite, or a bit over the top?

I notice people tend to mix their politeness levels up a bit at times...
For example, when my cousin talks to my mom, he might use 반말 when the subject is first or third person, but use 존뎃말 when the subject is "you" - i.e. 나도 가야 돼? 고모 호자 가세요. I notice this on TV too...

Good point about the news... Its like a whole other language.

Yep. I hear ya.

I am still confused with 는/은 vs 이/가.