Questions about pronucation

[zerohundred]

Hi! I'm new to KoreanClass101, so I don't know if I'm asking a question that may have been covered in one of the lessons already. Sorry!

I am a big K-drama and K-pop fan, so I have had a lot of experience HEARING the Korean language (even though I am just learning it). What I have noticed when it's gotten down to spelling and pronouncing certain words, they are different in reality from how they tend to sound. For instance:

"네" often sounds like "데," or even "대"! Why is this? Am I actually confusing words? I thought I picked up the meaning, so that's why I am pretty sure they are the same word, just pronounced differently. Is this a matter of accent? Or does "casual" every-day speech wind up something a little more like this?

Another word I can specifically think of that sounds really different is "미안해" etc. It obviously has an "m" sound, and I've heard it pronounced with this sound (a silly example being the song "미안해요" by 거미). However, when it's used in conversation, I find that it sounds a lot like it starts with a "b" sound, or "비안해." What is with that?

Sorry for being so long winded, but it's one of those things I keep wondering about the more I learn. It could easily just be a mistake on my part; my English-familiar ears may not hear the distinctions. I just thought I would throw the question out there!

Thanks!

[javiskefka]

It's actually got more to do with how we pronounce English than with variations in different Korean speakers. Because you're a native English speaker, you've been trained to think about the consonants "n", "d", "m", "b" in a certain way. Although these English consonants may sound similar to their closest counterparts in Korean, they're not the same. Because of these subtle differences we often confuse the pairs that you're talking about when hearing or speaking Korean. If you have a native Korean speaker listen closely to you while you're pronouncing Korean, they may tell you that it's unclear if you're saying a ㄴ or a ㄷ, etc. I know I've heard that comment about my pronunciation!

It's just something that comes with time and practice. You have to retrain your ear to hear Korean and your mouth to speak Korean.

[yhenry]

Hi! I'

"네" often sounds like "데," or even "대"! Why is this? Am I actually confusing words? I thought I picked up the meaning, so that's why I am pretty sure they are the same word, just pronounced differently. Is this a matter of accent? Or does "casual" every-day speech wind up something a little more like this?

We Koreans usually don't pay too much attention to the short and the long vowel sound, 'ㅔ' or
'ㅐ', and make them sound differently in 데, or대, but never say '네/내' in place of '데/대, because 네 is different from 데 in meaning.

Zero 뭐 하니? What does Zero do?
공부 하네 I see that he/she is studying.

Zero 뭐 하나 물어봐 Ask Zero what he is doing.
공부한데 I heard/he says he studies.

Another word I can specifically think of that sounds really different is "미안해" etc. It obviously has an "m" sound, and I've heard it pronounced with this sound (a silly example being the song "미안해요" by 거미). However, when it's used in conversation, I find that it sounds a lot like it starts with a "b" sound, or "비안해." What is with that?

Never that way.
Maybe we can say 미아내요 due to the liaison effect which is only habitually correct, not grammatically though, because only 'ㅇ' sound as the first sound of syllable following a syllable with a third or fourth consonant sound is to be replaced with the sound from the leading syllable, like 'ㄹ' in '알아' which is pounced as '아라', or 앉 아 to 안자.
(one syllable is consist of 2, 3 or 4 letters and sounds, except the double consonant or vowel which is considered as one letter and sound.)

Sorry for being so long winded, but it's one of those things I keep wondering about the more I learn. It could easily just be a mistake on my part; my English-familiar ears may not hear the distinctions. I just thought I would throw the question out there!
Thanks!

Never say sorry because you are not sorry asking questions.
Rather, you are happy getting the answer to your questions.

What you have to sorry is that you didn't get the word first before you hear it.XD

What I am getting at is that you got to have the word first recorded in your memory chip. After that you can link the sound to the word when you hear the sound of it.
The sounds are hard to distinguish but not the words written, in a book or brain.

As for me, a native Korean,the sound of 'can or can't' is hard to distinguish from each other in hearing the sound.
I just have to get it from the context, like yes, I can or no I can.
I also miss hearing the sound of preposition when it sounded as a part of a word like inabook.

So, you do not seem to be alone in that confusing sound room.

[zerohundred]

Wow! Thank you so much for the quick and helpful replies. A lot has been cleared up for me!

And you're right, Yhenry; I suppose it is not necessary to apologize for asking questions. I am very happy to have answers. Thanks!

[holdfast]

actually, hyunwoo posted a video about the difference between ㅁ and ㅂ and also ㄴ and ㄷ. you can watch it here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4bvafQsNnM ^^

[Keith]

그리고... it was in our first pronunciation lesson!

[shanshanchua]

Actually I was quite amused by yhenry's answer. Because it shows quite clearly how differently a native Korean speaker and a non-native Korean speaker hears those sounds. This has been raised a couple of times before - how 네 sounds like 데... But this is a "problem" that seems to bug only non-native speakers, never native speakers. So I guess we are wired to hear those sounds differently.

So I second what javiskefka said - you just have to retrain your ear to hear Korean and your mouth to speak Korean! :) And be assured that you are not having some kind of hearing problem!

[Chris1]

These are common issues that foreigners have, especially with the 서울 dialect. It is the female voice that particularly sounds somewhat like 데 when saying 네. However, under close analysis, it seems to really be the sound of ㄴ.

However, I must agree that the ㅁ sound, when used as a first syllable with certain vowels, does have a slight ㅂ sound attached. This is characteristic of at least the 서울 dialect.

What do you guys think?

[SiEd]

These are common issues that foreigners have, especially with the 서울 dialect. It is the female voice that particularly sounds somewhat like 데 when saying 네. However, under close analysis, it seems to really be the sound of ㄴ.

However, I must agree that the ㅁ sound, when used as a first syllable with certain vowels, does have a slight ㅂ sound attached. This is characteristic of at least the 서울 dialect.

What do you guys think?

I brought up an important paper regarding this very issue called "Denasalization in Korean". You can see the entire citation here:

http://www.koreanclass101.com/2008/05/2 ... 6-the-bus/

(It's the last comment posted.)

Anyway, from what I understand, the denasalization only happens when the following vowel is a "high" vowel, e.g. ㅣ or ㅜ.

[zerohundred]

Thank you everyone for replying. This is simply fascinating to me, and it's really helpful as well.