Addressing a Much Younger Stranger in Korean

[sincla]

Forgive me if this was already covered in a lesson...I haven't made my way through all of them yet.

I know that "학생" is used to address a stranger that looks to be about high school or college age.

How about addressing a child of anywhere from kintergarden to elementary to middle school age (and whose name you don't know)? Can you still say, "학생"? Or do you use some other title? (I've heard 꼬마야! before, but how common is this?)

Thanks.

[matthew254]

since Korea is still very much a Confucian-influenced society, it would help to know the age not only of the listener, but of the speaker. If you are say, a non-Korean male aged 25-40 then that would have different implications of a 17 year old Korean-American.

In my case, I'm in the former category that speaks enough Korean to be confident but not quite enough to carry a conversation longer than 5 minutes (we're working on that), so for me, when I see a little Korean kid at the grocery that looks about 5 years old, I say either "이리 와" or just "야".

I should point out that the tones of your voice means so much. If I were to say that any other way than gingerly to just some random kid, I would surely get a nice scolding from one of any parents around.

Also, I like to give random kids that I see nicknames to get their attention. This can be really fun so long as the atmosphere permits it. If a kid is acting snooty, I'll say "공주이 " or just plain old "princess"

[hyunwoo]

Yeah some kids(꼬마들) might think they're not 꼬마s

꼬마 is a term for kids, often with the nuance that they're very immature and baby-like. So... while in some situation 꼬마야 would be fine, I say "얘야." (이 아이야 => 얘야)

or yeah just like Matthew said the tone of your voice is important, but sometimes I wouldn't even call the kid - just go up and start the conversation with "저기... 얘야, blah blah blah blah"

or if you want the kid to come over to you, what Matthew said works fine "이리 와" "여기!"

[usakorjb03]

I don't think my Mom stopped saying 이리 와 to me until I was about 15 years old. Of course in my mom's eyes i'm still a child and even tho i'm 23 (american age ) SOMETIMES she still says it. ahh, what are mothers for? lol

I kno she only says that cuz i'm her son but just thought I share. For those with korean mother's and/or fathers, do they still say to you 이리 와?

[hyunwoo]

Hehe. It's totally understandable

My parents just say "현우야" or "아들!" when they call for me.

[rooraa]

This may be off topic but when I hear koreans call their friends by their name with a 아 attached to the end (ex: 재중아!) I thought it was because because they are close and you just add the 아 to the end of the person's name to show you are close.

But I read somewhere on http://askakorean.blogspot.com/ (he's quite humorous and straightforward) that it was because nothing can stand on its own. Everything needs a particle like 아.

[sincla]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Especially Hyunwoo, thanks for the explanation and, yeah, 얘야 seems like the best term to use when calling a kid.

By the way, I just listened to your culture class on the Jeollado dialect. I lived in 전라남도 (구례) for 2 years and I remember that the 사투리 gave me a real headache when talking to just about anyone...I really appreciated that lesson as finally some things that I heard way back started to make sense, and I hope you'll do more lessons in the future on 전라도 사투리 when you get the chance.

[javiskefka]

This may be off topic but when I hear koreans call their friends by their name with a 아 attached to the end (ex: 재중아!) I thought it was because because they are close and you just add the 아 to the end of the person's name to show you are close.

But I read somewhere on http://askakorean.blogspot.com/ (he's quite humorous and straightforward) that it was because nothing can stand on its own. Everything needs a particle like 아.

Adverbs like 정말, 빨리, 설마, etc. stand on their own, but yes, nouns like names must have a particle to specify their role in the sentence.

[usakorjb03]

hyunwoo, My Mom calls out for me by saying 아들 or just simply 야 when I don't answer right away, but sometimes 이리 와 slips out....sometime she'll say 야! 이리 와!!

[shanshanchua]

I'm just wondering - do Koreans expect non-Koreans to behave the same way in terms of level of politeness/terms of respect etc.? Would they be offended if, say, a Korean-speaking American friend calls them by their first names and always speaks in the intimate politeness level?

[manyakumi]

Shanshanchua,

You'd better speak in the standard politeness level on any cases.
Actually I recommend you not to speak in the intimate level before you become very good at Korean and understand its whole nuances.

Most of Korean people would understand you even if you use incorrect level of speech.
But it won't help you to make good relationships.

[austinfd]

I have mixed feelings about this...

I completely agree that it is safest to use standard politeness in all relationships. Koreans are also very well aware that foreigners aren't schooled in the nuance of politeness levels, so they are a bit forgiving of your mistakes. That said, if you continually make the same mistake with the same person, you might run into trouble. Especially if they know you are studying Korean.

Most courses and textbook ONLY teach standard a formal politeness levels. I am disappointed in that. It is an important place to start and is a good foundation, but I also think it "cripples" you in some other ways.

1. It doesn't prepare you to HEAR 반말 which is important listening practice.... it IS really a different experience to hear 반말.

2. A Korean friend of mine told me very plainly that "If a person uses 반말 with us we feel like we can have a close relationship with them." So in my friendships with Koreans of a similar age, I use a fair amount of 바말. Of course I also use it with kids almost on a daily basis!

3. When you are learning a language, learning the culture is just as important. Therefore, Korean learners should be taught exactly how to use 반말 and when it is appropriate. Korean children are taught this as they learn..foreigners should also learn about it. Of course we make mistakes, but you will never learn without the opportunity to make the mistakes!

This is just my personal perception, but, 4: I feel like some Koreans think that, 반말 is a special thing that foreigners shouldn't be allowed to use. They treat it like it is only for Koreans. I have a problem with that philosophy too. I want to learn the language, and all of its idiosyncrasies .

5. I have overheard plenty Korean conversations where each speaker weaves in and out of various politeness levels. Last night I had a chat with a man on the bus who is 15 years older than me, and even towards me, he used a few different levels... I of course used standard form with him. So it seems that being comfortable with all the nuances is important for natural speech


All of that said, it is VERY important to make an effort to use the appropriate politeness levels. And like manyakumi said, using standard level will never get you in trouble. Using 반말 might. If my students use it towards me, I will scold them, it is one of the few times they will hear me speak Korean. I expect that if they are going to say something to me in Korean that they be properly polite. As foreign adult, if I used the wrong form on the street with some random아줌마 I don't think I'd get scolded, but if I continually used it with my older co-workers or with the principal, etc, I would quickly get into trouble, and I'm sure our relationship would be a little bit strained.

[matthew254]

I was waiting for your opinion on this Austin! Thanks for your honesty!

[Bouks]

We're privileged to have you share unique observations like this with us. Thank you for your candidness.

[holdfast]

I
This is just my personal perception, but, 4: I feel like some Koreans think that, 반말 is a special thing that foreigners shouldn't be allowed to use. They treat it like it is only for Koreans. I have a problem with that philosophy too. I want to learn the language, and all of its idiosyncrasies .

i have come across this too! i have a couple of friends who i speak 반말 with, and they have always been the ones who have suggested it. of course, with kids i use it as well. but there was an instance where one of my friends and i were talking in 반말 and one of the other guys that was there was like "you're going to let her talk to you like that?" and she said "yes, she's my friend and we're the same age." but he still looked obviously upset by the whole ordeal.

i suppose some people may think this way because there aren't many foriegners who can speak korean well enough to be able to speak 반말 appropriately, so they aren't used to hearing it? or perhaps they think that any foriegner speaking 반말 doesn't know how to speak respectfully? i am not sure..

but surely, not everyone thinks that way. i've only had a problem with it one time.