several questions

[fej4955]

Hello everyone,

I have met on several interesting facts while studying Korean and wonder what of this all is true.

1. Why ,왜, is used very often. Today I listened to a podcast, where they said that koreans say "why" in situations when one normally in other languages (e.g. european languages) would use "what". Is there a reason to this? I have noticed several times, that in korean drama, they characters say 왜 (why), but the translation says "what".

2. I hear often ㅁasㅂ. E.g. 미국 as 비국 or 삐국, that is "m" is proununced just like "b/p". I notice it also in difference forms of "what" e.g. 무슨. As hangul the initial consonant could be expected to proununced as "m" but often it sounds just like "b". Do I hear wrong or is the pronunciation of ㅁ andㅂvery close each other?

3.This might be a missunderstanding, but I think that ㅗ is often pronunced asㅓ, respectively is ㅛ asㅕ. This happens with the standard polite copula ㅛ. It is pronunced as [ㅕ], instead of [ㅛ]. Do you have anything correct in this point?

4. This one is my favourite, r/l in asian languages. The super fact about this it that asian people have often no idea are they pronuncing "r" or "l", they just hear no difference. This reminds me of the japanese man, who thought that his boss meant "suprise room" instead of "supplise room". Now, in Japanese there is no rule is the pronuncation "r" or "l", it is somewhere there between.

However, in Korean, I have heard about the rule, that if ㄹ is as inital consonant, the pronunciation is a soft "r" e.g. 사람 [sharam]. If ㄹ is again as final consonant, the pronunciation is with "l" e.g. 항굴 [hangul]. I asked this same question of korean native speaker, and her explenation just made me more confused, so I have basically no idea is there existing rules of how ㄹshould be pronunced.

Thank you in advance.

[korea.innovative]

Hey Fej,


That is very interesting insight and here is the comment below!

Hello everyone,

I have met on several interesting facts while studying Korean and wonder what of this all is true.

1. Why ,왜, is used very often. Today I listened to a podcast, where they said that koreans say "why" in situations when one normally in other languages (e.g. european languages) would use "what". Is there a reason to this? I have noticed several times, that in korean drama, they characters say 왜 (why), but the translation says "what".
-> this case is very interesting difference but it seems to be very much cultural. The same question would apply for English or even European for why 'what' instead of 'why'. Could also be very much linguistic aspect as well but I don't see any clear answer for that.

2. I hear often ㅁasㅂ. E.g. 미국 as 비국 or 삐국, that is "m" is proununced just like "b/p". I notice it also in difference forms of "what" e.g. 무슨. As hangul the initial consonant could be expected to proununced as "m" but often it sounds just like "b". Do I hear wrong or is the pronunciation of ㅁ andㅂvery close each other?
-> basically ㅁ,ㅂ,ㅍ are in the same category in Hangul and since there only difference exists on how you breathe out, there may seem similar. Also as you may know, the batchim rule could also be applied to affect the original sound into something else. For example, 이건 무슨 말이야?, since there is batchim before 무슨, even though it does not necessarily change but because of accent used in previous word, it implicitly affects the next word.

3.This might be a missunderstanding, but I think that ㅗ is often pronunced asㅓ, respectively is ㅛ asㅕ. This happens with the standard polite copula ㅛ. It is pronunced as [ㅕ], instead of [ㅛ]. Do you have anything correct in this point?
-> those are one of the common alphabets that Koreanclassers are going through. For ㅗ, you could think of O from Orange and ㅓ as U from Ugly. So when you pronounce those English words, you could tell the difference. Also for ㅛ and ㅕ, it is similar context that ㅛ is more like ㅗ sound but with Y sound while ㅕ is like ㅓ but again, with Y sound.

4. This one is my favourite, r/l in asian languages. The super fact about this it that asian people have often no idea are they pronuncing "r" or "l", they just hear no difference. This reminds me of the japanese man, who thought that his boss meant "suprise room" instead of "supplise room". Now, in Japanese there is no rule is the pronuncation "r" or "l", it is somewhere there between.
->that is absolutely true! To make it simple, Koreans do not basically use curled tongue. There may be similar sound but it is sure that we don't use the sound as 'curly' or 'wrong'. If you would like to hear some sounds that are between r and l, you could use our FREE Korean Dictionary to hear Korean words as 라면, 이름.

However, in Korean, I have heard about the rule, that if ㄹ is as inital consonant, the pronunciation is a soft "r" e.g. 사람 [sharam]. If ㄹ is again as final consonant, the pronunciation is with "l" e.g. 항굴 [hangul]. I asked this same question of korean native speaker, and her explenation just made me more confused, so I have basically no idea is there existing rules of how ㄹshould be pronunced.
-> that is one tricky part but for romanization rule of Korean, you are on the right track. For initial consonants, it is romanized as R though it is not exactly the same as how it would sound in English; on the other hand, last consonant as L. But again, R would not have any strong curled sound.
Thank you in advance.

I am not sure if I have given you any insights but those are very much blurred lines.

Please let us know if you have further questions,

We would be more than happy to hear from you!



Thank you

Madison
Team KoreanClass101.com

[fej4955]

Thank you for your answers, it was very helpful.

Earlier today I was very confused with the pronunciation after meeting as usual the native speaker I learn from. I have solved the problem by choosing one way of pronuncing from this site (http://www.arakorean.sg/korean-pronunci ... l-alphabet). However, what I have noticed is that the pronunciation examples are litte different depending which internet page I look at. I guess that has to do with from with region the person, who does the audio recording, is from. My solution to this is: I ignore any other different pronunciation I hear, and if the native speaker I learn from says nothing bad, that is okay. Otherwise I will be very confused.

Then to the question. Is there a theoretical possibilty that 내가 could sound as 대가 in some special kontext? Since earlier the "ㅁ" in "what" could sometimes sound as it was "ㅂ". If ㅁ,ㅂ could sometimes sound the same, is it possible that ㄴ could sound little like ㄷ?

from your answer:
"-> basically ㅁ,ㅂ,ㅍ are in the same category in Hangul and since there only difference exists on how you breathe out, there may seem similar. Also as you may know, the batchim rule could also be applied to affect the original sound into something else. For example, 이건 무슨 말이야?, since there is batchim before 무슨, even though it does not necessarily change but because of accent used in previous word, it implicitly affects the next word."


Thank you in advance.

[sabaku.tomoshibi_225307]

Hey, regarding your 3rd issue.

Are you english native speaker? My mother tongue is swedish so for me I translate ㅗ as "oh" and ㅓas "o". Thats what I type in my notebook and I ignore every other persons translation.

I think most people have probably different native language then english so peope like to translate it differently as how they think it translate best as. Regarding the korean pronounciation I don't know ^^

[fej4955]

I am bilingual Swedish and Finnish.

If I think in Swedish
ㅏis "a"
ㅓis "å/a"
ㅕis "jåå/"
ㅑis "jaa"
ㅠ is "joo"
ㅜ is "o"
ㅗ is also "å"
ㅛ is also "jåå"

What I have noticed, is that ㅗ is little clearer than ㅓ. For some reason, I cannot distinguish between them, i.e. I hear both ㅓas ㅗ Swedish "å".

Trevligt att träffas. Hur långt har du hunnit i dina koreanska-studier?

[sabaku.tomoshibi_225307]

I am bilingual Swedish and Finnish.

If I think in Swedish
ㅏis "a"
ㅓis "å/a"
ㅕis "jåå/"
ㅑis "jaa"
ㅠ is "joo"
ㅜ is "o"
ㅗ is also "å"
ㅛ is also "jåå"

What I have noticed, is that ㅗ is little clearer than ㅓ. For some reason, I cannot distinguish between them, i.e. I hear both ㅓas ㅗ Swedish "å".

Trevligt att träffas. Hur långt har du hunnit i dina koreanska-studier?

Started a week ago maybe

[fej4955]

I continue with the issue regardingㅓ,ㅗ,ㅕ,ㅛ.

I have researched on internet different prounciations, and found that native speakers/people prounce these vowels in a different way. I understand this of several reasons:

1. There are different regions where the speakers are. Because of that, different dialects exist.
2. Hangul, as any other alphabet in any language, is not always pronunced exactly the same way it is written. I know this happens in Finnish, Swedish, Russian, English, Japanese. E.g. knight is "naight" not "night" and through is "thruu" not "through". In Japanese, kowai "scary" is pronunced as "koai", no "w" there.

Now to the examples in Korean:
1.안녕하세요. Here both ㅕsound quite the same ㅛ. If am correct, ㅕmight be little darker. In my opinion they would both fit the pronunciation of "orange" with the exta y added (->yoo). In this example ㅕdoes not sound at all as "ugly" u with the extra y (->juu)

2.선생님 and 저, 너 have the same vowel ㅓ. However, the ㅓ in 선생님 sounds totally different that the ㅓ in 저 and 너.

3.In 도 again ㅗ does not fit "o" in "orange" at all.

My theory is that Hangul is not perfect. The pronunciation in the real language changes faster than hangul is updated.
Of course, using pronunciation hints/guides from another language than Korean itself makes this more difficult to explain.

Thank you in advance.

[fej4955]

Sorry for double-posting, but the situation is solved. Today I met the native korean I learn Korean from. I used the pronunciation found on that internet page. However, I still wonder about those questions in the previous post.

[korea.innovative]

Thank you for your answers, it was very helpful.

Then to the question. Is there a theoretical possibilty that 내가 could sound as 대가 in some special kontext? Since earlier the "ㅁ" in "what" could sometimes sound as it was "ㅂ". If ㅁ,ㅂ could sometimes sound the same, is it possible that ㄴ could sound little like ㄷ?

Thank you in advance.

Hey Fej,


Sincere apologies and glad to know that you have solved the problem with your friend!

Perhaps you are referring the question above as in previous question?

I would actually doubt if it would change so because of other sounds for 내가.

It may be possibility that it could be bit stressed depending on the context and strengthen the N sound but not sure if it would push as far as D sound.




Thank you

Madison
Team KoreanClass101