About TOPIC PARTICLE - 은 [eun] & 는 [neun]

[timandyou]

Hello everyone~~
This is Tim from KC101.com.
Throughout this post, I'd like to talk about 'Topic Particles - 은 [eun] & 는 [neun]'.
Please keep this in mind though - to clearly explain the difference between 'SUBJECT particles (이/가)' and 'TOPIC particles (은/는)' is really hard.
In many cases, both 이/가 and 은/는 are interchangeable. (to know the difference between two requires a lot of study and experience in Korean).
This topic is already covered in "Absolute Beginner Season 2 Lesson 3".

1. What does "Topic Particle" mean?
=> This particles (은 / 는) are used to make a noun the TOPIC under discussion.

For example, let's take a look at a simple sentence of "this is a desk"...
In that sentence, what is the topic? YES, the topic is "this".
In that sentence, what is the verb? YES, the verb is "is".
In that sentence, what's the complement? YES, the complement is "a desk".

Now, let's translate each element into Korean.
a. the subject - "this" - is 이것 [i-geot]
b. the verb - "is" - is 이다 [ida] / 입니다 [imnida].
c. the complement - "a desk" - is 책상 [chak-sang].
so, all together, "this is a desk" is "이것 + 책상 + 이다 => 이것 책상이다" or "이것 + 책상 + 입니다 => 이것 책상입니다"
HOWEVER, it's NOT all (why? because it's not a sentence!) You have to attach 은 [eun] or 는 [neun] right after the TOPIC - "this" 이것.
THEREFORE, it becomes 이것 + 은 => 이것은. Finally, the correct translation is 이것은 책상입니다.


2. Here is the formation of 은 [eun] / 는 [neun].
a NOUN (Topic) + 은 [eun] or 는 [neun]


3. Then, here is a question! When do we use 은 [eun] over 는 [neun]? when do we use 는 [neun] over 은 [eun]?
The rule is simple!

a. If the noun ends WITH a consonant (with a 받침), attach 은 [eun] right after 'the NOUN'. (이것 + 은 => 이것은)
b. If the noun ends WITHOUT a consonant (without a 받침), attach 는 [neun] right after 'the NOUN'. (여기 + 는 => 여기는)


4. Lastly, let's simply practice on the rule. (remember this - those rules (a & b) above are extremely essential to know if you want to learn Korean)

A. Please fill in the blanks
ex) a. "My name is..." => 제 이름 + 은 => 제 이름은...
b. "This is..." => 이것 + ___ => _______...
c. "Mr Tim is..." => 팀 씨 + 는 => ________...
d. "Miss Debbie is..." => 데비 씨 + ____ => ________...
e. "That is..." => 저것 + ___ => ________...
f. "This individual is..." => 이분 + ___ => ________...

B. Please translate each sentence into Korean
ex) a. "My name is Tim." => 제 이름은 팀입니다.
b. "This is a chair." => 이것___ 의자입니다. ("a chair" = 의자)
c. "Mr. Tim is a student." => 팀 씨___ ____입니다. ("a student" = 학생)
d. "Miss Debbie is a teacher." => 데비 씨___ __________. ("a teacher" = 선생님)
e. "That is a computer." => ______________________ ("a computer" = 컴퓨터)
f. "This individual is American." => ______________________ ("American" = 미국인)

Now, you know about the 'TOPIC PARTICLE - 은 / 는'
Thanks for your time and study.
Please feel free to give me any advice and comment on this post.
Hope this post helps you understand Korean better,
cheers, 여러분 힘내요~~ "Go Go everyone~~~"
Tim

ps. for more info about 'Topic Particle', please give a listen to "Absolute Beginner Season 2 Lesson 3"

[ratnamaliak1783]

Hi Tim,it's a nice topic
but, could you give me some examples which is using only '은/는 ' and can't be interchangeable with '가/이'?

[trutherous]

Don't rack your brain too much over this -- as Tim said regarding 은는/이가

(to know the difference between two requires a lot of study and experience in Korean).

Grammar is an awesome tool for writing but a miserable helper when it comes to speaking. Most people probably realize that in actual conversation almost nobody thinks about what particle or pattern to use, it's just a matter of speech habits learned until the grammar becomes second nature.

Now I am really going to throw a wrench into the gears; Tim didn't mention it but there is also a somewhat rare objective use of 은/는. In the objective use 은/는 is used to indicate an exclusiveness to an object - examples:

(standard object identification with 을/를) 한국말을 공부합니다 - I study Korean
(exclusive emphasis of object using 은/는) 한국말은 공부합니다 - I study Korean (and not something else)

Fictional conversation at a banquet:
저는 채식주의자입니다. I'm a vegetarian.
아.. 그럼 고기는 안 잡수시겠네요. Oh, then you won't be eating any meat. (not "the meat" but you'll eat the other food)
생선은 먹어요. I do eat fish. (I will eat the fish but not other meats)

*** *** ***
and I think we shall not get into this mess today

좋은
많은
하는
있는

[timandyou]

Hi, there...
Hello ratnamaliak1783, all the practices below the explanation are EXAMPLES!!!
and about your question... "but, could you give me some examples which is using only '은/는 ' and can't be interchangeable with '가/이'?"
Please let it go... If you know those rules, that's already good enough.
Even if you would take Korean Classes at Korean university, no Korean professor would give you those examples...
Why?

1. That's NOT important to discuss about.
(My best tips for you is to remember their technical terms - 은/는 "Topic Marking Particles" & 이/가 "Subject Marking Particles")
Please... how good your Korean skill is today, ratnamaliak1783!??? If you become 'advanced level', I will explain it with 100% details.
The more I explain it to you, the more it will make you confused and, ask me more question... I am 100% sure about that! Why should I do that!?

2. Let's put this way - you want to perform 300 push-ups. What is the first thing you have to do!?
#1. You have to like exercise. If you don't enjoy working out, FORGET the goal! It's NEVER gonna happen!
#2. Okay, you've come to like exercise. Train the basic and improve the core muscles.
#3. Okay, you are ready... currently you can do ONLY 50 push-ups. This week you perform 50 push-ups each day three times a week.
Next week, you add 10 push-ups (60 push-ups) each day three times a week. Why are you doing that!?? This is the ONLY way to increase the level of "resistance level" of your body. Keep adding 10 push-ups each week...
#4. After weeks after weeks with that training, NOW your body is ready for 'the 300 push-ups'!

Why did I say it to you!? I can tell you a number of "examples of some examples which is using only '은/는 ' and can't be interchangeable with '가/이'" BUT, you wouldn't understand a bit of it. Sorry to say that but, please let it go! What you have to do is to enjoy learning and practicing a day after a day... Then, when the time is right for you, I will tell you and your brain would understand it.


Okay, next to George,
Please do NOT confuse listeners... You don't know their (current) Korean levels, if you give them too much info, they would become confused much more...
Thanks for the comment but,.. please...

Subject particles 은/는 vs, 좋은/하는/있는/많은...??
In that objective use 은/는!?? George,,, there is nothing like that! (sorry)

You gave us examples..
"Fictional conversation at a banquet:
저는 채식주의자입니다. I'm a vegetarian.
아.. 그럼 고기는 안 잡수시겠네요. Oh, then you won't be eating any meat. (not "the meat" but you'll eat the other food)
생선은 먹어요. I do eat fish. (I will eat the fish but not other meats)"

저는 채식주의자 입니다.
아. 그럼 고기는 안 잡수시겠네요... "then YOU won't be eating ANY MEAT."(it's okay in SPEAKING but NOT in WRITING)
in writing, it should be, 그러면 당신은 고기를 안 잡수시겠네요... "you = 당신은 (subject)" & "any meat = 고기를 (object)"
and, 생선은 먹어요. "I do eat fish". (it's okay in SPEAKING but NOT in WRITING)
in writing, it should be, 예, 하지만 전 생선도(을) 먹어요. "I = 전 (subject)" & "fish = 생선도(을) (object)"
You should tell them where those sentences came from...
After that, you can tell them... those subjects (당신은 & 저는(전)) can be deleted in casual speaking.
After that, you can tell them... those particles (은/는) can be used as a replacement of object particles (을/를) (for the purpose of emphasis).

Sorry... that I become a bit strict on your guys...
Please don't take it personally,
cheers,
Tim

[ratnamaliak1783]

Thankyou for answering my question.
I'm asking ofcourse because I don't know the answer. Sone of my friends also ask me about it.
Already long time learn korean but sometimes I confuse to choose '가/이, 은/는'

maybe you right Tim, practice and excercise will explain them by them self.


^_^

[trutherous]

easy easy --방가 방가 I love ya Tim - please don't get mad at me

Subject particles 은/는 vs, 좋은/하는/있는/많은...??
In that objective use 은/는!?? George,,, there is nothing like that! (sorry)

천만에요 I wasn't drawing a grammatical comparison between those elements -- I was merely pointing to a similarity created by using the same 글자 - my illustration was designed to show how confusing it can be to broadly apply a single grammatical rule in all occurrences of a given group of letters -- sorry if my illustration created any confusion.

잘 먹겠습니다 relax -- breathe -- relax 당연하지

As you said in a subsequent post"

1. Do not confused "--는" with 'Topic Marking Particle - 는'.
a. 'Noun Modifier' is attached to VERB STEM!!! (used with be-verb, or action / adjective verbs)
b. 'Topic Marking Particle - 는' is attached to NOUN!!! (used with nouns)
2. The usage of 'Noun Modifier' is to MODIFY nouns => therefore, its element is 'ADJECTIVE'.
3. MUST know about 동사어간 "VERB STEM" (if you don't know about them well, please take a good look at http://www.koreanclass101.com/forum/vie ... php?t=2805)

I wasn't confused on that point, again, sorry if what I wrote created any additional confusion.

Of course there is adjective use including tense with these same letters -- Once again, I was merely pointing out how difficult it can be to take a grammatical approach to learning a foreign language -- sorry about the confusion.

As for the use of 은/는 as a contrast marker with objects (Speaking Korean Book I - Francis Y.T. Park) the following sentence is found 학생들이 한국말은 공부합니다 with the explanation "The students are studying Korean (and not some other language)" In fact a whole chapter is devoted to the additional use of 은/는 as a contrast marker, and since

은/는 contrast use still seems to be present in Korean language, at least in speech (as you point out), it seems only right that the issue be addressed at the same time as 'topic' and 'subject' markers are discussed because running into the exception later and trying to interpret it as a topic marker could create even more confusion. Anyway, keeping the exception close to the rule just seems a logical and organized way of doing things:

I would love to see an explanation like: You have this 은/는 TOPIC marker used like this blah-blah는-example-sentence이다, but in some rare cases you might see 은/는 used as a contrast marker for an object like this blah가-blah는-example-sentence한다, of course it must not be confused with the use as a noun modifier where it becomes adjective, such as example은 and example는.

There -- all wrapped up into one. Such an explanation might be confusing to little children but I would venture a guess that most of the audience here are somewhat more mature (with the possible exception of myself).

I dunno -- I guess in the English speaking world we are kind of used to complex rule sets that include exceptions, I offer one of our spelling rules as a prime example:

Rule: "i" before "e" except after "c" (but that is only part of the rule)

Exception: except when sounding like "ae" as in "neighbor" and "weigh" (but we are still not done)

Additional exception: also "weird," "either," "neither" (ok --as I remember, thats' the entire rule we learned as children)

화이팅

Tim's favorite expressions:

1. 당연하지 (Dang-yeon-haji) - "Of course"
2. 천만에요 (Cheon-man-e-yo) - "You're (very) welcome."
3. 잘 먹겠습니다 (Jal meok-get-seumnida) - "Thanks for ths meal."
4. 방가 방가 (Bang-ga bang-ga) - "Hello Hello"
5. 화이팅 (Hwaiting) - "Good luck. Keep it up. Keep up the good work."