So I am a little confused.

[julia3202]

The following was written by a native speaker as a translation of "I don't know."

The part that confuses me is the use of '겠', future tense in this construction.

저는 잘 모르겠어요

I've read elsewhere that tense isn't much important in Korean.

A subtlety, like (humbling self) I don't think I can 'get' it?

[trutherous]

저는 (I am) 잘 (well, thoroughly) 모르겠어요 (wouldn't know)


Tense is important, however, in this case think "I wouldn't know" --got it?

Here are some examples of 'to not know" with tense and descending politeness, you don't usually need to say "I" (나는/저는) before saying the verb form 모르다 and it still implies "I"

저는 모릅니다 - I don't know. 몰라요 몰라
저는 모르겠습니다 - Lit: I wouldn't know. 모르겠어요 모르겠어/모르겠다
저는 몰랐습니다 - I didn't know. 몰랐어요 몰랐어/몰랐다

[manyakumi]

Hello, Julia.
Using the future tense '겠' makes your words more polite and formal.

표를 주실래요?
Will you give me the ticket?

표를 주시겠어요?
Would you give me the ticket? (please)


Korean people prefer to use...

잘 모르겠어요.
잘 모르겠는데요.
잘 모르겠습니다.

than

잘 모릅니다.
(In fact, we rarely use this form.lol)


Sean.

[timandyou]

I think you got enough explaination from George and Sean.
Thank George and Sean.

cheers,
Tim

[trutherous]

모릅니다 was just an example of tense - not recommending an expression to use or implying that one form is more commonly used than another.

[julia3202]

Thanks... I haven't gotten to that part of the grammar... ¬¬ I know only enough confuse myself.

And ask for food.

[trutherous]

Thats a great start Julia!

[manyakumi]

모릅니다 was just an example of tense - not recommending an expression to use or implying that one form is more commonly used than another.

And I just wanted to show you how different between textbooks and real conversations.
You know I didn't mean to offend you George, right?


Regards,
Sean.

[trutherous]

Sure Manyakumi, I know that. Even if you were trying deliberately to offend me I would enjoy it. If not for your input here this forum would be BORING! You are one of the most lively participants here! And I just loves ya more than you know.

Now to the grammar:

Yes -- Just like thousands of other examples what we learn that is grammatically correct may not necessarily be used in common conversation. Perhaps every student of English learns "How do you do? It's nice to make your acquaintance." But almost no one in the English speaking world uses that exact greeting anymore, and in everyday conversation it would be more common to hear something like "How ya doin? Nice to meet ya."

But getting back to the use of 겠 for making an expression "more polite" -- well I see something similar in English when using a future tense of certain terms, as in the case of "I don't know" and "I wouldn't know" these have no actual difference in meaning in common conversation, but "I wouldn't know" can carry a little softer connotation, and even sound more educated; however, depending on intonation and context it can also be sarcastic, or even carry the meaning "why are you asking ME?"

Once again getting back to the "polite" 겠 verses the 'tense' 겠, the interesting thing I find is that in many cases of 겠 we can still see a future sense to the expression 예: 뭐뭐 주시겠어요? 아직 그 '뭐뭣'을 안 받았거나 가지고 있지 않으니까 그 간단한 표현에는 미래를 가리키는 뜻도 보일 수 있는 것 같아요 - 특히 서양사람의 생각(의식구조)으로는요. 또 "모르겠다"할 때는 '아직'을 말하지 않아도 "겠" 있으니까 "I don't know YET" 라는 말이 쉬게 떠오르는데요. .. 물론 나 같은 서양 머리속에서 말하는 거에요.

Following that, perhaps 모르겠다 is more polite than 몰라 because of the use of 겠 ... I wouldn't know 난 모르겠다 모르겠어 모르겠단 말이야 몇 번 말해야 알겠니? ... of course we would all have to agree that the use of 겠 4 times in the previous sentence can do nothing to make the sentence polite - right?

[manyakumi]

Following that, perhaps 모르겠다 is more polite than 몰라 because of the use of 겠 ... I wouldn't know 난 모르겠다 모르겠어 모르겠단 말이야 몇 번 말해야 알겠니? ... of course we would all have to agree that the use of 겠 4 times in the previous sentence can do nothing to make the sentence polite - right?

Sure.
Since 겠 isn't actually a "politeness maker".

Using the future tense 겠 makes you one step away from what you are facing to.
And as a result, it makes you be more polite since Korean people don't like to be direct to present their thoughts.
That is the concept.

I guess that George already know this so this explanation is for the others may not know.

[trutherous]

Yeah.. 겠's not an honorific .. but we have similar nuances in English

It won't matter - It doesn't matter.
I wouldn't know - I don't know.

More rambling...

And of course it is more polite to ask someone to do something than to order them to do it:

"Would/will you bring me a glass of water please?" 물 한잔 주시갰어요? In the English 'would/will' still seems to allude to the future because you don't have the water yet, but the actual function of 'would/will' here has little to do with tense and everything to do with forming a question out of the command "You bring me a glass of water please." 뮬 한잔 주시오 -- similarly, the simple addition of 겠 changes the polite imperative into an even more polite request.

and then there's 모르겠다 -- 그것 대해서 난 아직까지 모르겠을까요? 아니면 한 점을 자세히 배웠을까요? 덕분에

[manyakumi]

모르겠다 sounds more soft than 몰라.
But it's still a 반말 expression.

In 존댓말 category,
모르겠어요 is way politer than 몰라요.
That's obvious.

[julia3202]

Ok change o topic. I've been pondering the sensibility matrix of

Verb-stem+ 시 + 요
. No. Yes = standard politeness
. Yes. No = honorific on subject , informal to listener. But does this combo make sense in any context when the subject is the listener? It would not seem so.
In other words can you be honorific and casual to a listener or does that blow a social circuit?

[trutherous]

I think it would be better if you created a new topic. There may be others who have the same question and they may not find the information buried under this previous thread.