Pronounciation of 있

[PikaPikaChick]

I posted this in Absolute Beginner lesson 2 but thought I might try here too. Obviously I'm very much a newbie.

I’m so confused about 있. So that last character (ㅆ) is pronounced with a hard “T” sound as opposed to hard “S” sound? Why isn’t it ㄸ? Is this the only instance where the pronunciation changes?

Just when I think I have a grip on reading Hangul you guys throw a wrench in.

[manyakumi]

There are only 7 sounds for ending consonant in Korean language and those are ㄱ,ㄴ,ㄷ,ㄹ,ㅁ,ㅂ,ㅇ

ㄱ,ㅋ -> ㄱ
ㄷ,ㅅ,ㅈ,ㅊ,ㅌ,ㅎ -> ㄷ
ㅂ,ㅍ -> ㅂ

있 is pronounced as 읻 by itself,
but ㅆ sound revives when a vowel comes right after it.

있다 - 읻다 - 이따 (itta)
있고 - 읻고 - 이꼬 (ikko)
있는 - 읻는 - 인는 (inneun)
있어 - 이써 (isseo)


Hope this helps!

[trutherous]

Thanks to manyakumi for his detailed explation. I thought about trying to explain this but for some reason I could not remember the word 'revive' when explaining how the final consonant sound carries over to a vowel sound. This is very important to remember.

있 is pronounced as 읻 by itself,
but ㅆ sound revives when a vowel comes right after it.

As a westerner learning Korean I would like to add a little more on the pronunciation because the example given by manyakumi might slightly misdirect a westerner first learning Hangul (like as it was in my case). But first I would like to add that a student should strive to reach the point where 있 is pronounced like 있, what I mean is that it should not be compared with any other phonetic system, because tying Hangul into another system keeps the mind a prisoner of that other system.

so for '이' using 'ee' as in 'see' --

While a Korean will pronounce both 있 and 읻 as 'eet.' a westerner tying Hangul into the English alphabet will typically pronounce '읻' as 'eed,' so giving the example '읻' might lead to a slight mispronunciation.

So to my western American-English ears '있' should sound like 'eet' not 'it' or 'eed'

following that, I would make these slight adjustments:

있다 - 읻다 - 이따 (eetda)
있고 - 읻고 - 이꼬 (eetgo)

the rest was absolutely perfect!

I hope that helps

[manyakumi]

George,
Thank you very much for the additional explanation for the westerners.

[timandyou]

One of hard thing to learn Korea can be to learn how to write Korean.
Even many Korean, especially over age 50, make a lot of mistakes writing Korean because, writing is very different from speaking, just like English.

To make my point clear, I will give you some examples...

잇다 (to link)
있다 (there is)
잊다 (to forget)
익다 (get cooked)
these all four can be sounded as 이따 (i dda)

Now you can see why Korean can be really difficult.

Now here is my golden question!
"Why do you want to learn Korean? what purpose for?"

If your answer is, "I want to enter Korean university and work for Korean companies in Korea. I have to get through Korean exams!" then, you must study speaking and writing accordingly.
On the other hand, if your answer is, "I am just curious... I want to visit Korea, I want to meet my old Korean friends... I just want to experience a bit of Korean..." then, the important part for you is speaking which is '이따 (i dda)'. In case you might want to know more, put those all four (above) on your note and practice them without taking much pressure on learning Korean.

My best advice to you is not to rush!
Learning foreign language is a very touch task for anyone.
Even native Korean speakers make a lot of mistakes.
Make a lot of mistakes and learn from the mistakes! then...
YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU WANT - TRUE UNDERSTANDING!!!
힘내세요~~!!! [/b]

[manyakumi]

No offense but
익다 should be pronounced as "ikdda" and distinguished from the others.

Thank you for showing your opinion.

[imaBALLER]

In 있고 is the ㅆ really not pronounced? So far I have been saying 있 + 고 not 이꼬... If this is the case I will have to adjust....

[imaBALLER]

For example - I just listened to this sentence 너 때문에 망쳤잖아! and the ㅆ in 쳤 is definitely pronounced. Is it only in 있 ?

[timandyou]

You may say 있+고 separately,
You may say 이꼬 rapidly...

You want to know why the sound is changed...
Okay!
Can you say 있+고 10 times? aren't you tired of speaking two words separately!?
How about 10 times more...!!
How about 10 times more...!!

Now you want to speak 있+고 fast, right?
Speak it faster... faster... and faster....
then eventually you will find yourself saying "이꼬"
Ah,ha!!!!
thanks for your comment!

[timandyou]

WOW~~ what a great question!!!

Korean consonants, especially in speaking, are really effected by nearby vowels and consonants; however, don't worry about them~~!
Many Korean kids/elementary students first learn to speak clearly so they practice speaking like 망.쳤.잖.아 or 있.었.잖.아. just same as many international Korean learners would practice...

Remember speaking rules or grammar points have been developed by the people who have been speaking, which means rules/ grammars were not the first thing to be developed but our habits/ways to speaking fast/how our tongues being placed...

Yes, when speaking 망쳤잖아, 그랬잖아, 있었잖아, Korean people pronounce the sound of ㅆ. however, when speaking 있다 (이따), 그랬어 (그래써), Korean people wouldn't pronounce the sound of ㅆ. why? it's because how our (Korean people) tongues been worked for years and years.. the name for this kind of grammar/rule is called, "자음동화"
Even under the rule of 자음동화, there are tons of exceptions... Does all the Korean people know this rule? my answer is "no"

My point is this - forget about the system of sounds. It's better to learn like kids/elementary students because it is the fundermantal way to stepping into the system. Speak more... practice more.... then your tongue will natually work out for you.

It is the same as Korean people wanting to learn English/Chinese/Japanese/and more... It's a hard way but... it works!

Trust in yourself and keep practicing! I (KoreanClass101.com) help you every steps!
Thanks,
cheers,

[manyakumi]

저.. 자꾸 딴지를 거는 것 같아 죄송합니다만...^^;; (한국분 맞죠? 한국어로 쓰겠습니다)
아무래도 한국어를 배우는 곳이다보니 배우는 분들이 혼란스럽지 않도록 잘못된 정보는 바로잡는 것이 좋다고 생각합니다.

전체적으로 한국어 발음을 익히는 방법에 관한 의견은 매우 좋다고 생각합니다. ^^
다만 설명이 좀 부적절하게 쓰여진 것 같아서...

however, when speaking 있다 (이따), 그랬어 (그래써), Korean people wouldn't pronounce the sound of ㅆ. why? it's because how our (Korean people) tongues been worked for years and years.. the name for this kind of grammar/rule is called, "자음동화"
Even under the rule of 자음동화, there are tons of exceptions... Does all the Korean people know this rule? my answer is "no"

예로 드신 '있다', '그랬어'에서 나타나는 음운현상은 자음동화가 아닙니다.
'있다'는 종성 'ㅆ'의 영향으로 뒤에 오는 '다'가 경음화된 것 뿐이고,
'그랬어'의 경우는 뒤에 오는 'ㅇ'이 음가가 없기 때문에 종성이 그대로 연음되어 발음되어지는 것 뿐이죠.
한국인들은 여기에서 ㅆ 발음을 하지 않는다고 하셨지만,
분명히 "그래써"에는 ㅆ 발음이 있습니다. ^^;

자음동화란 뒤에 오는 자음에 영향을 받은 종성이 뒤에 오는 자음과 같은 성질로 변하려는 현상을 말하는 것입니다.

문란 -> 물란
박물 -> 방물
앞문 -> 암문

이런 것들이 자음동화의 예입니다.



P.S
그리고 좀 오해하고 계신 듯한 부분이...
음운현상에는 예외란 게 없습니다.
발음기관의 구조상 그렇게 소리가 나는 것이지, 그렇게 소리내도록 규정한 법칙이 아니기 때문이죠.
다만 예외가 있다면 발음 자체를 달리하는 사투리에서 정도랄까요...

[manyakumi]

For example - I just listened to this sentence 너 때문에 망쳤잖아! and the ㅆ in 쳤 is definitely pronounced. Is it only in 있 ?

망쳤잖아 should be pronounced as 망쳐짜나.

And yes, ㅆ was pronounced.
The sound ㅈ in 잖아 turned to ㅉ,
by the influence of the sound ㅆ.

[timandyou]

I made a mistake about '자음동화'
Let's have fun learning Korean~~!!!
cheers,

[trutherous]

That was really fun!

I would also say that the pronunciation is influenced to a great degree by the amount of alcohol your Korean friends have consumed. After a couple bottles of soju 97% of all the sharp corners get rounded off the language.

[PikaPikaChick]

I would also say that the pronunciation is influenced to a great degree by the amount of alcohol your Korean friends have consumed. After a couple bottles of soju 97% of all the sharp corners get rounded off the language.

Bwa ha ha! That made me laugh this morning.

Thanks, everyone! I'm a bit of a grammar snob when it comes to (American) English so I have to try not to let that carry over into my Korean learning. All these posts have been extremely helpful, thanks!

I remember asking a similar question of an IRL Korean teacher and she tried to explain that the consonants following certain letters changed certain letters sometimes... but she did it in such a way where she looked at me like I was crazy for not knowing that already. Gotta start somewhere.