Yo! Verb endings!

[maxiewawa]

I think I'm right in saying that almost every sentence so far at KoreanClass101.com has ended in ~ㅂ니다. I have some books that also finish every sentence with that verb ending. If I turn on the Korean TV channel that I somehow get, every sentence ends in ㅂ니다.

But when I listen to my Korean friends' conversation, everything ends in 요. Everything. If I ask how to say a word, they always give me something ending in 요. Hyunwoo's blog also is heavy on the 요, light on the ㅂ니다. I don't think he's used ㅂ니다 yet actually.

I have the feeling that one is polite and one is.. less polite?

Which is more polite?

How are these verbs formed?

Dictionaries always give the 다 form (I don't know what it's called) but I've never heard it used. Why would a dictionary be full of verb conjugations that aren't used?

감서헙니다!

[Alex Lee]

I'm going to over-simplify this, but what I've been taught this far is,

ㅂ니다 form (most polite, also used to address large audiences, like a newscaster broadcasting the news)
요 (most generally used)
다 (very informal, you'll hear elders use it towards younger people, and kids use it amongst themselves a lot)

Examples:
(meeting someone for the first time with an undetermined social ranking)
저는 알렉스입니다. 만났어 반갑습니다.

(chatting with some random co-workers)
오늘 손님 많이 있어요.

(some random kids on the street)
외국인 있다!

In our class, our teachers started with ㅂ니다 and say that's all we have to worry about for now. I think it's probably because once we get it over with we'll focus entirely on 요 form.

[steved]

Korean has a very structured social order within the language and Alex's simplification of that is pretty good. The -요 form is most commonly heard because it is fairly informal but still polite so it is acceptable just about everywhere.
The polite formal ending of -ㅂ니다 would certainly be appropriate for newscasts or communication where your audience is unknown. It may sound awkward talking that way to a child though but I have heard school principles using formal speech when talking to students.
The lower forms of speech are most common around friends, with children or those younger than you. I don't think formal education focuses on those because you wouldn't want to slip up and speak 반말 in the wrong situation. It is always better to be too formal than not formal enough.
I believe the pdf's for the lessons outline the conversation at the various speech levels.
One joke that I have seen several times on Korean dramas is the person slipping up by speaking low and then slipping in a -요 at the last minute to make the speech more formal.

[hyunwoo]

One joke that I have seen several times on Korean dramas is the person slipping up by speaking low and then slipping in a -요 at the last minute to make the speech more formal.

Here are a few examples of what Steve probably meant :

밥 먹었지..? 요?

- 밥 먹었지?(you ate, right?) is not formal, but 밥 먹었지요? is formal


알았지?...요?

- 알았지?(you got it, right?) is not formal, but 알았지요 or 알았죠? is formal.


뭐라고?...요?

- 뭐라고?(What??) is not formal, but 뭐라고요 or 뭐라구요? is formal.

[hyunwoo]

The reason that all the verbs and even adjectives are written in the form of -다 in the dictionaries is because -다 is the basic infinitive form of everything.

- IMPORTANT -

So, basically, the verb ending "다" that you see in dictionaries and the ending "다" in 고맙습니다, 반갑습니다, and etc are DIFFERENT 다's.


Take the verb "하다 = to do = する = 做"

You can see it conjugated like

합니다(do)
합니까(do?)
했습니다(did)
해요(do)
하고(do, and)
해서(do, therefore)
하는(doing)
하면(do, then)
할게요(will do)

But when you want to look it up in the dictionary, it's 하다.


And the word for 'delicious' is conjugated like this :

맛있습니다.(is delicious)
맛있습니까?(is delicious?)
맛있었어요.(was delicious)
맛있어요(is delicious)
맛있고(is delicious, and)
맛있어서(is delicious, therefore)
맛있는(delicious ___)
맛있으면(if delicious)

( I know the English translations are overly simplified, but just to give you key parts of the meaning )


But again, when you look it up in the dictionary, it's 맛있다



Apart from -ㅂ니다 (like you already know, it's the most polite form),
the -다 form of the verbs and adjectives are rarely used. They are like guidelines to show you where to conjugate the verb from.

I hope this helps!

[Keith]

good job on the explaination guys

As Korean is a language which heavily inflects respect and humility through politeness levels, culturally speaking, it's best to learn the most polite than the most informal, first (just as steved mentioned).

That's why for the time being, we'll be focusing on the formal politeness level, and then gradually making our way to the standard politeness level. But yea, that's why we include everything in the PDF's

[CarlKenner]

I heard that MNIDA and EOYO are both equally POLITE, but MNIDA sounds business-like, professional, and official; while EOYO sounds informal and friendly. And that they are for different situations, rather than for different people.

And that there are less polite versions of both.

[javiskefka]

In a way, you're right. There are two factors to speech levels in Korean. As you termed them, there is politeness and formality. The infix -시 is called an honorific. It means that you are showing respect or politeness to the subject of the sentence. Formality can be broken down into three levels as the previous posters have shown.

There are two styles of the most informal speech level, and they're related to the -ㅂ니다 and -어요 forms, but only in the way that they are spelled. A verb can most easily be lowered to informal speech by taking a word like 먹어요 and just cutting the -요 off of the end to make 먹어. The other style of informal speech is more closely related to the dictionary form, because it is based on the verb stem. This is just the dictionary form minus the -다 on the end. For the verb 먹다, the stem is 먹-. To make this stem into lower speech, you add -는다 and make 먹는다. Both 먹어 and 먹는다 mean "eats" but the second has a different, less intimate and more masculine feel.

Also, the 먹어 type verbs do not change in spelling if the sentence is a question suggestion or a command. It's just the intonation that indicates which meaning. The 먹는다 type verbs have different endings for different meanings. There's -라 for commands, -니 for questions, and -자 for propositions. This is similar to how -ㅂ니다 verbs have the endings -ㅂ니까, -ㅂ시다, and -십시오 which have the same meanings.

[the_haunted_boy]

So convenient to just remove the 요 to make it even more casual. When I first studied Korean I was taught the 요 form right away, so I am used to that way.

[mariefrenette]

I was also really confused about this, since I live in Korea I am in these situations every day. When we first start learning a language we want to mirror what people say to us. So if an 아줌마 talks to me in 반말 (informal) I want to reply back that way. But that is simply not acceptable (although they do understand beginners make mistakes).

What I find more difficult is being around people who are so close in age to me. If I'm 25 and someone is 27, they can talk to me in informal language, and I must talk to them in more formal language (요). But then, as we become closer, it is not uncommon for the older person to say something like "편하게 말해주세요" (maybe a little wrong) which means speak comfortable please, so it means, "we're good friends, you don't need to speak to me formally". So the trick is, you should wait for your senior to tell you that. Otherwise, always use at least "요" on the end of your sentence.

It's not optional for you to use. But there is an option for your listener to tell you you don't need to use it.

Marie

[hyunwoo]

Yes, a very good point, 마리

And the expression you wrote is correct!

Here are some ways to suggest using the intimate politeless level

"편하게 말해 주세요"
"편하게 말해도 괜찮아요"
"말 놔도 괜찮아요"
"말 안 높여도 괜찮아요"
"반말로 해도 괜찮아요"

[mariefrenette]

현우씨
도와주셨어서 고맙습니다.

다른 생각 나왔어서 더 쓸게요.

I am living with a Korean family (it seemed like the only way to improve my Korean while working all day as an English Teacher and turned out to be the best decision I've made since I came to Korea). I am surprised that between family members, sometimes formal language is used, and sometimes it isn't. Some families always use 반말 with eachother, some speak to eachother very often in formal language. It just depends!

Also, if I noticed that if someone is much younger than you (like 25 vs 5) even if you don't know the kid, you can use 반말, but that very same kid could go to a hagwon (private academy) and their teacher might speak to them in formal language (because that kid is their client, their customer) or might use informal just depending on the mood or the feeling.

The safest thing is, to always use 요 (except of course in business, where it would be more professional to the next highest level). Then if you ever come to Korea, you can keep your ears open to hear how things work. As a non-Korean, the concept of "respect" in language might seem very difficult to grasp. Even if you think you've grasped it, you may encounter trouble when you enter a new situation.

I'm still playing with it, but to be cautious mostly use 요 form except with my close friends. This is another situation where nothing is black or white.

Marie