EDIT: i'm just going to keep adding questions here.. ^^

[manyakumi]

나는 네가 안 올 줄 알았어 - would it be safe to also translate that as "i though you weren't coming"?

Sorry for my English.

for example: 김치 먹을 줄 알아요 probably means "i know how to eat kimchi" because there is no subject or anything, but if someone said that about someone else it could mean "he/she knows you can eat kimchi" (then you should use a subject, i know, but i was trying to give an example)..

Not because of the subject, but the tense makes the meaning different.

김치 먹을 줄 알아요.
I know how to eat kimchi. / (You should know) you will eat kimchi.
김치 먹을 줄 알았어요.
I thought you(he/she) knew how to eat kimchi.
김치 먹는 줄 알아요.
(He/she) thinks I am eating kimchi. / (He/she) thinks I know how to eat kimchi. / (You should know) we're gonna eat kimchi.
김치 먹는 줄 알았어요.
I thought you(he/she) were eating kimchi.

Depends on its tense and tone.

but if it was 김치 먹을 줄 알았어요 then we can assume that it means "i thought you knew how to eat kimchi" (but you really don't know how to eat it)? maybe i am still misunderstanding...

You are right, Emily.

also - is 스레 just a shortened version of 스럽게 or are they different? (but i understand how they are different from 수러워 now - i wasn't thinking when i asked the question haha!)

Even if it's not a shortened version, 스레 and 스럽게 are perfectly same in their usages and meanings.

and also i was curious if using 다 somewhere in the sentence usually implies reported speech? because every example i have seen so far shows some kind of reported speech - in the 온다는 것을 example you just gave me, ~다고, ~다니까 etc..

Yeah, I meant 'reported'.

[holdfast]

yay...!!! things are making more sense now.

감사합니다 manyakumi 선생님 ^^

i will have a lot more questions again pretty soon, i am sure. ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ ^^

[holdfast]

갔다 왔습니다~~

i have noticed a usage of 야 that i don't understand: 그후에야 잘보면서... 내가 하고야 말겠다... 이준고야 만다.. these particular examples are not important, and i can't even remember the context i saw them in, but i have noticed this a lot recently. 무슨 뜻이죠? "해야 하다"의 "야"는 비슷해요?

how do you use 더니? is it similar to 더라?

this might be obvious, but is 나은 것 conjugated from 나다? and does 나다 also mean to get better from an illness? i thought my friend told me 빨리 나 when i was sick...

do people often leave off the 까 from 으니까? 예를: ~했으니 하고 ~했으니까 똑 같아요?

and what is the meaning of the sentence ending 도다? this must be older speech ^^

and is there a different older meaning for the sentence ending 네? i understand how to use it in speech, but i have seen it with some other 옛날말 and it seems like it could be a different usage.. i don't have any examples though. but it seemed strange that everything else was formal, and that was just 네 and not 네요.

감사합니다~~

[Chris1]

갔다 왔습니다~~

i have noticed a usage of 야 that i don't understand: 그후에야 잘보면서... 내가 하고야 말겠다... 이준고야 만다.. these particular examples are not important, and i can't even remember the context i saw them in, but i have noticed this a lot recently. 무슨 뜻이죠? "해야 하다"의 "야"는 비슷해요?

The context is somewhat important, but it essentially is an extreme emphasis. It can kind of be compared to using all caps in english or slowing down on a word. For example:

*NOW* I can go. (after I did so and so)
이제야 갈 수 있다

You may also see ~서야 and ~야말로. These kind of have the same effect, but differ in usage.

how do you use 더니? is it similar to 더라?

Kind of, yes. It's the nuance of 더 and ~니까 combined.

내가 밖으로 가도 되냐고 물어봤더니 엄마는 안 된다고 소리쳤어.
내가 사랑을 고백했더니 남자친구는 안 받았네.
전화를 했더니 친구는 벌써 나가고 없었다.

It's really like a certain type of connective. Keep in mind that the present 더니 and the past 더니 are very different. With the present, the subject cannot be 1st or 2nd person, and are usually the same. With the past, the first subject is usually I/we and the 2nd clause cannot have the same subject:

수잔이 한국에 가더니 소식이 없네.
인류학을 공부하더니 지금은 사회학을 공부한다.

this might be obvious, but is 나은 것 conjugated from 나다? and does 나다 also mean to get better from an illness? i thought my friend told me 빨리 나 when i was sick...

This is 낫다 -> 나아 and 나은 -- means to improve/get better/etc

do people often leave off the 까 from 으니까? 예를: ~했으니 하고 ~했으니까 똑 같아요?

Yes, people leave it off. There are nuances in each situation, but they're specific to context. Obviously using the 까 adds a little stress to the previous clause. It really depends, but 으니 and 으니까 are essentially the same thing.

and what is the meaning of the sentence ending 도다? this must be older speech ^^

I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. Do you have an example?

and is there a different older meaning for the sentence ending 네? i understand how to use it in speech, but i have seen it with some other 옛날말 and it seems like it could be a different usage.. i don't have any examples though. but it seemed strange that everything else was formal, and that was just 네 and not 네요.

This can have a lot of different nuances, but I can't really tell if what you're thinking about is different without an example. Sorry maybe someone else can help.

[holdfast]

how do you use 더니? is it similar to 더라?

Kind of, yes. It's the nuance of 더 and ~니까 combined.

내가 밖으로 가도 되냐고 물어봤더니 엄마는 안 된다고 소리쳤어.
내가 사랑을 고백했더니 남자친구는 안 받았네.
전화를 했더니 친구는 벌써 나가고 없었다.

It's really like a certain type of connective. Keep in mind that the present 더니 and the past 더니 are very different. With the present, the subject cannot be 1st or 2nd person, and are usually the same. With the past, the first subject is usually I/we and the 2nd clause cannot have the same subject:

수잔이 한국에 가더니 소식이 없네.
인류학을 공부하더니 지금은 사회학을 공부한다.

아직도 이해가 안돼요~~ i have seen it used a lot, but i don't understand exactly what it means, compared to all of the other connectors that are similar.

and the last two things i have seen in the bible/church songs, so they must either be 예날말 or 높임말 or 옛날놉임말 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ. learning korean is certainly like learning more than one language - unfortunately for me, not many people study this part of the language, so there aren't really any explanations anywhere online or in any books that i have seen (for older korean or biblical 높임말).

[Chris1]

아직도 이해가 안돼요~~ i have seen it used a lot, but i don't understand exactly what it means, compared to all of the other connectors that are similar.

It's difficult to explain exactly what it means in a few sentences, but it's somewhat similar to other connectors.. and it can be similar to ~어서 in terms of function, but it's nuance and meaning is somewhat unique. I looked in one of the grammar books I have, and I think it explains the usages quite well:

1. 전에 경험하여 알게 된 사실이나 상황과 다른 새로운 사실이나 상황이 있음을 나타낸다. 주로 앞의 내용과 대조적인 사실이 뒤에 온다.

2. 전에 경험하여 알게 된 사실이나 상황에 바로 뒤이어 다른 사실이나 상황이 일어남을 나타낸다.

3. 전에 경험하여 알게 된 사실이나 상황에 더하여 그와 관련된 다른 상황이나 사실까지 있음을 나타낸다.

4. 전에 경험하여 알게 된 사실이나 상황이 뒤 문장의 결과를 낳는 원인이나 이유가 됨을 나타낸다.

It can also be used as an (somewhat) ending instead of a straight connector:

용법 1, 3, 4의 경우 뒤 문장이 생략되어 '-더니'가 문장 종결형처럼 쓰여 말을 흐릴 수도 있다.

Let me know if you need a translation, but I think the Korean explains it better.

and the last two things i have seen in the bible/church songs, so they must either be 예날말 or 높임말 or 옛날놉임말 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ. learning korean is certainly like learning more than one language - unfortunately for me, not many people study this part of the language, so there aren't really any explanations anywhere online or in any books that i have seen (for older korean or biblical 높임말).

I figured as much, but I still am not too sure without examples. Someone might be able to help you, though. And you really won't be using these types of biblical speech in any context with daily/business life.

[manyakumi]

Hi, guys.
Chris' explanation was quite good and I'm gonna add for the rests.

and what is the meaning of the sentence ending 도다? this must be older speech ^^

Yeah. this is an older ending for 이다.
It gives us a nuance of bigger scale of speech.

and is there a different older meaning for the sentence ending 네? i understand how to use it in speech, but i have seen it with some other 옛날말 and it seems like it could be a different usage.. i don't have any examples though. but it seemed strange that everything else was formal, and that was just 네 and not 네요.

This is just a simple ending. There is no other usage for being formal.
Sometimes it could be used for exclamatory sentence ending.
I guess this is what you saw.

[holdfast]

i am still quite confused with all of these connectors.... 더니, 더라, 다니 etc.. naver wasn't much help either. can someone give an example with the same sentence and explain the difference? or.... know where i can find a good explanation?

how do you use ~다시피?

is there a difference between 합니다 and 하답니다?

more 높임말 - what does the ending ㄹ찌어다 mean? also, what is the meaning of 사 as an ending? as in 하여 주 사..

in this example, what is the nuance of using 하도록 해? 오늘은 제가 먼저 하도록 하겠습니다 - i understand the meaning of 하도록, but in this case it would have made perfect sense to say 하겠습니다 without the 하도록, so i was curious about the nuance.

what is the function of 하고자/되고자? here is an example: 여러분들이 하고자 하는 의욕과 열정이 있었기 때문에 모든 것을 잘 미칠 수 있었습니다 and 그래서 여러분들에게 도움이 되고자 오신 분이 계세요



i think that is all for now. ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ ^^

[manyakumi]

i am still quite confused with all of these connectors.... 더니, 더라, 다니 etc..

'더니' or '더라' suffix is used when you are trying to let the listener know what you are saying is from your memory.

점심을 너무 많이 먹었더니 배가 안고파요.
I'm not hungry since I ate lunch too much.
(Remember? "I" can have only past tense "ㅆ/았/었더니")

그는 그렇게 말하더니 사라져 버렸다.
He had said so and disappeared.

에밀리라는 (네) 친구는 참 착하더라.
(I saw that) your friend called Emily was so kind.
에밀리라는 (네) 친구는 참 착했다.
Your friend called Emily was so kind.


'다니' has two different usages.

1. Short for "(다)니까" conjunction

별 일 없었다니 다행이다.
-> '(네가) 별 일 없었다' 니까 다행이다.
Good to hear that you had nothing wrong.

2. Expressing a surprise.

네가 나를 배신하다니... (믿을 수가 없다)
(I can't believe that) you betrayed me...

그 많은 걸 너 혼자 다 먹다니...
(I can't believe) you ate all alone that much.

how do you use ~다시피?

1. Verbs referring to perceptions such as '보다/듣다/알다/느끼다/짐작하다...' + 다시피
"same as you ___"

보다시피 거의 다 끝났어.
As you see, it's almost done.

아시다시피 저는 돈이 없습니다.
As you know, I have no money.

들으셨다시피 그는 내일 온다고 합니다.
As you've heard, they said he will come tomorrow.


2. Verb stem + 다시피
It means "almost (but not exactly do it)"

아이는 거의 울다시피 하면서 집으로 갔다.
The kid went back home almost crying.

일이 바빠서 요즘에는 사무실에서 살다시피 합니다.
I'm almost living in my office because I'm so busy recently.

is there a difference between 합니다 and 하답니다?

먹을만 합니다.
It's not so bad to eat.

먹을만 하답니다.
(he/she/they say) it's not so bad to eat.

more 높임말 - what does the ending ㄹ찌어다 mean? also, what is the meaning of 사 as an ending? as in 하여 주 사..

Old words..

ㄹ지어다 = ㄹ것이다
사 = 아/어서

큰 상을 내릴 지어다.
= 큰 상을 내릴 것이다.

하여 주사
= 하여 주어(서)

in this example, what is the nuance of using 하도록 해? 오늘은 제가 먼저 하도록 하겠습니다 - i understand the meaning of 하도록, but in this case it would have made perfect sense to say 하겠습니다 without the 하도록, so i was curious about the nuance.

Kind of a softener.

오늘은 제가 먼저 하겠습니다.
We can see the strong will from this speaker but it might sounds little bit rude in some situations.
Then you could use _도록 하다 for expressing your will in more polite manner.

what is the function of 하고자/되고자? here is an example: 여러분들이 하고자 하는 의욕과 열정이 있었기 때문에 모든 것을 잘 미칠 수 있었습니다 and 그래서 여러분들에게 도움이 되고자 오신 분이 계세요

고자=려고

하고자 하는 의욕 = 하려고 하는 의욕
도움이 되고자 = 도움이 되려고



"에밀리가 한국어 공부하는데 조금이라도 도움을 주고자 답변을 합니다."

[holdfast]

고맙습니다~~

"아시다시피"란 건 반말로 하려면 "알다시피"란 건 될까요?

[manyakumi]

고맙습니다~~

"아시다시피"란 건 반말로 하려면 "알다시피"란 건 될까요?

넵! Perfectly...

[holdfast]

as always, thank you (:

i've just got epik high's map the soul cd/book last night at their concert, and i read the whole thing before i could go to sleep last night. but now i have some more questions. of course ^^

i think the basic meaning is pretty straightforward, but what are the nuances of the following grammar structures:

~으면 하다 - 예를 : 짧은 기록들이 있으면 합니다

~기로 하다 - 예를 : 만들기고 했다


and this sentence 나의 꿈은 출발점이자 종착점 is translated as "my dream is the starting line and the finish line" but i don't understand the -이자.....

and i keep seeing sentences ending in 뿐이다 but i don't understand the usage. the dictionary says it means "only" but i don't understand it.. if it does mean "only" i don't understand why it is used at the end of the sentence where the main verb usually goes. this might be a strange sentence, but the only example i have in front of me is this: 거대한 부나 명예를 바라기에는 그저 앞에 캄캄한 길이 넣여 있을 뿐이야 (the translation the book gives for this sentence is "it is too dark of a path to wish for great wealth or grandeur).

hmm.... that's all for now ^^

[manyakumi]

i think the basic meaning is pretty straightforward, but what are the nuances of the following grammar structures:

~으면 하다 - 예를 : 짧은 기록들이 있으면 합니다

~기로 하다 - 예를 : 만들기고 했다

They are all working as kinda softeners.
You know Koreans don't say directly so much.
_으면 하다 is like 'I think...' or 'I wish that...' or 'I hope that...'

And _기로 하다 means 'to make one's mind to do ___'
하다 here actually means '(마음을)정하다'

and this sentence 나의 꿈은 출발점이자 종착점 is translated as "my dream is the starting line and the finish line" but i don't understand the -이자.....

A이자 B이다 -> It's A and B at the same time.
It's the same meaning with '_이고 _' but having more stress on 'at the same time'

그는 학생이자 연구원이다.
He is a student and a researcher at the same time.

You could say also as,
그는 학생이면서 (또한) 연구원이다.

and i keep seeing sentences ending in 뿐이다 but i don't understand the usage. the dictionary says it means "only" but i don't understand it.. if it does mean "only" i don't understand why it is used at the end of the sentence where the main verb usually goes. this might be a strange sentence, but the only example i have in front of me is this: 거대한 부나 명예를 바라기에는 그저 앞에 캄캄한 길이 넣여 있을 뿐이야 (the translation the book gives for this sentence is "it is too dark of a path to wish for great wealth or grandeur).

It means 'only' but works as a verb(actually adjective in Korean) not an adverb in a sentence.

뿐(noun) + 이다(ending for making nouns into adjectives)
Same structure with 만이다, 것이다...

거대한 부나 명예를 바라기에는 그저 앞에 캄캄한 길이 놓여 있을 뿐이야
The only that I have in front of me is a dark path in spite of wishing for great wealth or grandeur.
(I think this would be more literal translation)

[kimchiandsoju]

Emily can I just say that you ask fantastic questions?


I will offer one small word of advice though (and you probably already knew this):

Be careful with trying to learn Korean through the bible/church... they use a different style of Korean, similar to what you would find in the King James version of the bible in English. I'd hate for you to walk around saying stuff like "Dost Thou Knowest where the bathroom art located?" in Korean... hahahahahah.

[holdfast]

Emily can I just say that you ask fantastic questions?


I will offer one small word of advice though (and you probably already knew this):

Be careful with trying to learn Korean through the bible/church... they use a different style of Korean, similar to what you would find in the King James version of the bible in English. I'd hate for you to walk around saying stuff like "Dost Thou Knowest where the bathroom art located?" in Korean... hahahahahah.

thanks! i am glad someone else appreciates my questions (and the answers that follow).

and yes, i am aware of the difference in the language. the problem comes when i am trying to understand it, or ask questions about it and people say "you don't need to know that!" but really, i do need to understand it and know it.. i don't talk like that though, don't worry ^^

but i hope that no one else is reading the explanations here and using them in normal conversation either. hehehehe!