EDIT: i'm just going to keep adding questions here.. ^^

[manyakumi]

I see.
We can see a lot of phrases like that in the bible and the prayers.

i see 소서 quite often, but i also see 옵소서 and i'm not sure what that means.. i'm sure it is similar?

Yeah, they are same.
옵소서 is little bit more formal, I guess.

소서 < 옵소서

[holdfast]

and, a few more questions...... (:

what is the difference between 도록 and 토록 and 수록? and could you give me an example sentence?

계심 - when i looked it up, it said precaution, but couldn't it also come from 계시다? from the context i saw it, that would make more sense.

even if that is not the case, can't you turn a lot of verbs back into nouns by adding ㅁ? like 도움.. is there a rule for when you can use this and how to conjugate it?

알아가다 무슨 뜻이에요? i saw it as 알아갈수록.

"독하게"는 열심히 같은 뜻이죠? 아니면 무슨 뜻이에요?

"있기에"는 "있기대문에"라는 뜻이죠? and is it often shortened in this way?

hmm.. i think that's all for right now. (: if anyone can help, i will be very thankful!!!

[manyakumi]

what is the difference between 도록 and 토록 and 수록? and could you give me an example sentence?

도록 has two meanings.

1. so that, in order to

학교에 늦지 않도록 일찍 집을 나왔다.
I left home early in order to be late for school.

나중에 먹을 수 있도록 싸 주세요.
Please pack it up so that I could eat later.

2. till,until

그는 밤 늦도록 책상에 앉아 있다.
He is sitting at the desk till late at night.

죽도록 사랑할게.
I will love you until I die.


토록 is the contracted form of 하도록

그토록 = 그러하도록
영원토록 = 영원하도록


ㄹ수록 means "the more ___"

더 많이 소유할수록 우리 자신을 잃게된다.
The More We Possess The Less We Own of Ourselves.

계심 - when i looked it up, it said precaution, but couldn't it also come from 계시다? from the context i saw it, that would make more sense.

even if that is not the case, can't you turn a lot of verbs back into nouns by adding ㅁ? like 도움.. is there a rule for when you can use this and how to conjugate it?

Are you sure that the word was "계심" not "조심"?
Of course 계시다 verb can be a noun by conjugating as 계심.

알아가다 무슨 뜻이에요? i saw it as 알아갈수록.

Litterally "to go with knowing" and it means
"to know (a bit by bit)"

알아갈수록 : the more I'm getting to know

"독하게"는 열심히 같은 뜻이죠? 아니면 무슨 뜻이에요?

독하다 : to be like poison (to be poisonous), to be really strong

Sometimes 독하게 could be used for 열심히 in a negative nuance.
독하게 = 지독하게

독한 사람 : a cold-hearted person

"있기에"는 "있기대문에"라는 뜻이죠? and is it often shortened in this way?

Yes. 있기 때문에.
But we tend to use 있으니까 or 있기 때문에 in the colloquial terms.
있기에 sounds kinda poetic.

[holdfast]

감사합니다~~ ^^

[holdfast]

adding again~~~~~

~대로 (~는 대로/뜻대로) 무순 뜻이에요? 어떻게 써요?

~체로 (~는 체로) 무순 뜻이에요? 어떻게 써요?

~마치기 (마치기 힘들어) 무순 뜻이에요?

~여러 가지 (여러 가지나)means something like "different kinds of.." or "all sorts of.." 맞죠? 근데 어떻게 써요? 예를 들어 주세요~

~통해 (여러분 통해/책을 통해) is something like 으로? like.... 책을 통해 알아요 - i know it from the book? something like that? my friend who can barely speak english tried to explain it to me.... 설명해 주세요....

~하여 - i often see this as an ending or in the middle of a sentence. 무슨 뜻이죠?

in english we would say "i sing in a choir" how would you say that in korean? 성가대안에 노래 해요 라고 하도 돼요?

i was looking for how to say "something to offer" and the dictionary said 줄 것이 있다 but i don't think that's the real meaning i'm looking for. i want to say something like "we all have something to offer" or "something worth offering." like.. each person has something that is good, that is worth offering to other people. in english we could just say "we all have something to offer." how can i say this?

how do i say "to be connected to.." about people. i saw 관련하다 관계하다 and 연하다 in the dictionary. which is the best to do? i'm trying to say something like.. "we are all connected to eachother."

hmmm.. i think that's all for now. (:

[manyakumi]

~대로 (~는 대로/뜻대로) 무순 뜻이에요? 어떻게 써요?

I think the most similar word in English would be "as".

마음대로 하지 말고 내가 하라는 대로 하세요.
Don't do as your will and please do as what I'm telling you.

돌아오는 대로 저한테 연락 주세요.
Please contact me as soon as you come back.

~체로 (~는 체로) 무순 뜻이에요? 어떻게 써요?

It shows us the conditions or certain look of things.

그는 신발을 신은 채로 집안에 들어왔다.
He came in to the house wearing his shoes.

나는 의자에 앉은 채 잠이 들었다.
I fell asleep sitting on a chair.

~마치기 (마치기 힘들어) 무순 뜻이에요?

마치다 means "to finish"
마치기 힘들어 : it's hard to finish.

~여러 가지 (여러 가지나)means something like "different kinds of.." or "all sorts of.." 맞죠? 근데 어떻게 써요? 예를 들어 주세요~

여러 가지로 감사 드립니다.
Thank you for all things.

한국어 배우는 방법에도 여러 가지가 있다.
There are many ways on learning Korean.

너 정말 여러가지(/가지가지) 한다.
You are so various. (in a negative tone: You are too much/You make so many troubles)

~통해 (여러분 통해/책을 통해) is something like 으로? like.... 책을 통해 알아요 - i know it from the book? something like that? my friend who can barely speak english tried to explain it to me.... 설명해 주세요....

You're right, Emily.
It means "through" or "by" when it's used as an adverb.
The verb "통하다" has a lot of different meanings however.
lead to, to make sense, be understood, be an expert, be known, etc...

~하여 - i often see this as an ending or in the middle of a sentence. 무슨 뜻이죠?

It's same with "_해서"
You can also say as _하여서.
It's a conjunction which indicates the cause and effect between two sentences.
They usually combine with 그렇다 and used as 그러하여, 그리하여, 그래서.

in english we would say "i sing in a choir" how would you say that in korean? 성가대안에 노래 해요 라고 하도 돼요?

This would be more natural.
성가대에서 노래해요.

i was looking for how to say "something to offer" and the dictionary said 줄 것이 있다 but i don't think that's the real meaning i'm looking for. i want to say something like "we all have something to offer" or "something worth offering." like.. each person has something that is good, that is worth offering to other people. in english we could just say "we all have something to offer." how can i say this?

How about...
줄 수 있는게 있다.
If you are meaning "each one has their own talent"
Any other better opinion?

how do i say "to be connected to.." about people. i saw 관련하다 관계하다 and 연하다 in the dictionary. which is the best to do? i'm trying to say something like.. "we are all connected to eachother."

I guess 연결되다 would be the right one.

우리는 모두 서로간에 연결되어 있다.
우리 모두는 서로 연결되어 있다.

[holdfast]

고마워요~~~~~

진짜 manyakumi씨 없으면 못 살 겠어요.. ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

[manyakumi]

뭘요 헤헤헤...
It's my pleasure.

그나저나 못 살겠다는 표현도 알고 있네요? ㅋㅋㅋ

[holdfast]

some more questions. sorry if it's a lot - i didn't really have internet access for awhile and have been keeping track of questions the whole time ^^

can someone please explain the following things:

-(으)므로 as in 그럼으로 or 있으므로 (also, is there a difference between 못 하므로 and 못 함으로?)
-에게서 - what is the difference from 에게 or 께서?
-꼐로 and also 께로부터
-더 이상
-(을)까 싶다 as in 사랑 할 수 있지 않을 까 싶다 (i understand 고 싶다)
-더니 as in 다시 물었더니
-~하자면 as in 말하자면 i understand to mean "as for..." but does it work with anything other than 말?
-does 이쪽 mean "this kind of..." as in 이쪽 일을 - this kind of work?

what is the difference between ~지 않다 and ~치 않다?

what is the difference between 보게 됐어 and 봤어? or 하게 됐어 and 했어? is it similar to ~지다 (to become)?

and lastly - does 이는 at the beginning of a sentence mean the same as 이유는?



i know i always have a million questions, but i just want to understand everything. thanks again! (: ^^

[manyakumi]

Welcome back online, Emily!

-(으)므로 as in 그럼으로 or 있으므로 (also, is there a difference between 못 하므로 and 못 함으로?)

This is a conjunction which shows the reason of the next sentence.
Not so colloquial however.

어제 비가 왔다. 그러므로 우리는 나들이를 가지 않았다.
어제 비가 왔으므로 우리는 나들이를 가지 않았다.
We didn't go picnic since it rained yesterday.

못 하므로 is same term with above.
못 함으로 means "by not being able to ___" but I guess this expression would be wrong.
It has to be "못 함으로 인해서" which means "by reason of not being able to ___"

-에게서 - what is the difference from 에게 or 께서?

Basically __에게서 means "from __" and __에게 means "to __".
But sometimes they use them both for meaning "from __".

친구에게서 메일이 왔다. (I got a mail from my friend.)
친구에게 메일이 왔다. (I got a mail from my friend./My friend got a mail.)
You have to distinguish them by its context.

께서 is an honorific form of the subject marker 이/가.

선생님이 나를 부르신다. (Teacher calls me)
is should be 선생님께서 나를 부르신다.

-꼐로 and also 께로부터

께로 means "toward __" and 께로부터 means "from __".
Both are honorific forms as well.

나는 어제 선생님께로 불려갔다.
I had been called toward my teacher yesterday.

나는 어제 선생님께로부터 부름을 받았다.
I had been called from my teacher yesterday.

-더 이상

더 means "more" and 이상 means "higher/larger/further..."

더 이상 배 불러서 못 먹겠다.
I can't eat anymore since I'm full.

더 이상 접근하면 쏘겠어.
I'll shoot you if you approach it furthermore.

-(을)까 싶다 as in 사랑 할 수 있지 않을 까 싶다 (i understand 고 싶다)

"I think if ___" or "I guess if ___" for the uncertainties.

내일은 그녀가 오지 않을까 싶어.
I'm guessing if she will come tomorrow.
= 내일은 그녀가 오지 않을까 해.

-더니 as in 다시 물었더니

It means "and then" and it comes as __더니만 often in colloquial terms.

-하자면 as in 말하자면 i understand to mean "as for..." but does it work with anything other than 말?

Actually its form would be __자면

예를 들자면 : as for an example

-does 이쪽 mean "this kind of..." as in 이쪽 일을 - this kind of work?

이 쪽 means "this side" or "this part"
So it could mean "this kind of __" sometime as you've exampled.

what is the difference between ~지 않다 and ~치 않다?

__치 않다 is a contracted form of __하지 않다

what is the difference between 보게 됐어 and 봤어? or 하게 됐어 and 했어? is it similar to ~지다 (to become)?

__게 되다 means "to be happened to __"
It gives us more a nuance of an incident.

- does 이는 at the beginning of a sentence mean the same as 이유는?

이 means the whole sentence or circumstance before you are trying to say.
I guess it means "It means ..." or "This means ..."

[Chris1]

Great answer as always!

I'd like to add a little bit.

1. ~더니 is somewhat similiar to ~더라(고) in which case you are recalling something. It kind of emphasizes that you're using your own recollection about what someone else did. In the case of ~더니, the subjects in the clauses are usually different:

선생님이 교실에 들어오라고 하셨더니 내가 조용히 들어갔다.

In your example:
다시 물어봤더니 절대 안 된다고 그랬어.
I asked again, and [they] said I couldn't do it [again]. (As I remember...)

This is usually used when telling a story/recollection of how something turned out.


2. ~자면 is a contraction of ~자고 하면. In the case of 말하자면 (if [you] say [we] should talk, then~). It's not similiar in meaning to ~냐면 (~냐고 하면), but it works kind of the same way.

3. When meaning, 하므로, many people misspell it into 함으로. As manyakumi said, 함으로 would have to be used with 인해서~ as it has a different meaning. It's important to pay attention to the context in these cases.

4. Although 에게 and 에게서 (한테 - 한테서) mean to/from as a direct object respectively, 에게서 and 한테서 are typically made into 에게/한테 in colliqual speech. This can be kind of confusing, but it's pretty easy to figure out if you pay attention to the context. Don't confuse 께서 as the honorific for 에게서, it is just the honorific for 이/가 subjects.

5. ~게 되다 and ~지다 are fairly similar.

6. 이, as you probably know, is an adjective for "this". However, it can often be used (most often in certain types of writing) to be a noun and often refers to the information preceeding it.

이에 동의하신다면 ~~~
If you agree to this [contract, etc]....

[manyakumi]

Great explanations, Chris.

1. ~더니 is somewhat similiar to ~더라(고) in which case you are recalling something. It kind of emphasizes that you're using your own recollection about what someone else did. In the case of ~더니, the subjects in the clauses are usually different:

선생님이 교실에 들어오라고 하셨더니 내가 조용히 들어갔다.

I guess you must be confused with other things on making this example.
It probably should be...

선생님이 교실에 들어오라고 하시더니 내게 말씀하셨다.
or
선생님이 교실에 들어오라고 하셔서 내가 조용히 들어갔다.
or
선생님이 교실에 들어오라고 하셨더니 모두들 조용히 들어갔다.

As you can see,
"__더니" is used for recalling something 'from a 3rd person's point of view'.
So the subject can be "I" in the first sentence but can't be in the followed sentence.

내가 선물을 주었더니 친구가 고마워했다. (O)
친구가 선물을 주었더니 내가 고마워했다. (X)
친구가 선물을 줘서 내가 고마워했다. (O)
친구가 선물을 주더니 고마워할 필요 없다고 말했다. (O)

I think Kclass101 team should make a lesson about this matter.

[Chris1]

"__더니" is used for recalling something 'from a 3rd person's point of view'.
So the subject can be "I" in the first sentence but can't be in the followed sentence.

There is a pretty big difference between the subject use of past and present 더니. I pulled out one of my earlier books on the matter:

"~더니 is not used with I or we. This does not apply to -었더니

a) 수진이 한국에 가더니 소식이 없네.
b) 인류학을 공부하더니 지금은 사회학을 공부한다.
c) 아침 일찍 학교 갔더니 교실이 텅 비어 있었다. (I is the subject of the first clause of recollection of something in the past, and then a third person [a classroom] is the subject of the next)
d) 전화를 했더니 친구는 벌써 나가고 없었다.
e) 밥을 많이 먹었더니 배가 아프다.
f) 우리가 공부를 열심히 했더니 시험을 잘 봤어요.

Note that the subjects of 었더니 are not usually the same. For example, 톰은 책방에 갔더니 책을 샀다 is not correct, but 톰은 책방에 가더니 책을 샀다 (third person) or 톰이 책방에 갔더니 민수가 와 있었다 is fine."

Thanks manyakumi!

[manyakumi]

You're welcome, Chris.
And thanks for the additional explanation.
It makes this matter more clearer.

[holdfast]

다시 한번 감사합니다~~ i have been away from new york for a few weeks and haven't had much time to practice or study or even speak korean, so this is very helpful!

i understand everything now except for 더니 but perhaps it would help if i understood 더라고 as you mentioned in your explanation, chris1. could you explain that for me please?

also, another thing that has been bothering me recently - it is probably a simple answer but i keep hearing (in 반말) people using 가지고 as a conjunction or even at the end of a sentence. i understand that 가지고 가다/오다 is to take/bring something with you, but it doesn't seem like the right context for what i'm hearing. is there another time when 가지고 is used? i've been hearing it A LOT!

also, i just saw in another post that 니 for questioning is 반말 but only for people younger than you. i have several people who i am on 반말 terms with that are older than me (they initiated it, not me, obviously) - are there any other things that i should not say to someone who is older than me, even if i am on 반말 terms with them? i didn't realize such things existed - hopefully i haven't already offended anyone!

^^