My newbie grammar questions thread! \o/

[SiEd]

Are there any exeptions (like verbs which stems end in ㄹ)?

Yes, irregular ㄹ verbs have their ㄹ removed before -는/-ㄴ is suffixed.

나는 존야요. - I'm John./Speaking about me, I am John.
나가 존야요. - I am John./It is me and nobody else that is John.
누가 존야요? - Who (of all these people) is John? (trying to identify John from a group of people. Maybe people around the speaker are speaking about John and the speaker doesn't know who he is.)
누군 존야요? - Is John who? (there's no sense in this question because who is not something that a person can be.)
존이 누구야요? - Who is John? (Trying to get exact explanation about John. Maybe the speaker asked about John before but didn't get any answer, some other people have been introducted to him instead. Now he is trying to get know who John and only John is.)
존은 누구야요? - Who is John?/Speaking about John, who is he?

I'm a bit confused (or then I'm just tired... ) about difference between 누가 존야요? and 존이 누구야요?. Okey, if you use "the arrow theory" you get English translations "Who is John?" and "Who is John?" respectively. Please give me further explanation! The more verbose the better.

And then one question about vocabulary: what is word that means 'wicked, evil, bad' in Korean? When I search for example word 'wicked' in Yahoo!'s dictionary, I get: 나쁜, 사악한, 부도덕한, 무도한, 못된 etc. Why are these words in prenominal form not in the normal dictionary form? 나쁜 is prenominal form of 나쁘다, right?

- Remember, 이야/야 is only used as a casual non-polite form for 이다. If you are using the polite informal -요 suffix, 이다 becomes 이에요/예요.

- 누가 존이에요? would be used if you're singling out an individual named 존 from a wide pool of possible referents. The latter 존이 누구예요? would be used for more clarification - if someone abruptly introduces 존 into the conversation.

- Online dictionaries are unreliable for this reason and more. Most of them are reflecting the same word order as the source language (i.e. English), so that's why you're getting the noun-modifying forms. For the verb forms, most dictionaries (at least written ones) have definitions like "to be X".

Hope that helps.

[manyakumi]

You're welcome again, Silja.

Modifying nouns with verbs

Verbs with stem ending in vowel
Past: stem + ㄴ
Present: stem + 는
Future: stem + ㄹ

Right.

Verbs with stem ending in consonant
Past: stem + 은
Present: stem + 은
Future: stem + 은

Past: stem + 은
Present : stem + 는
Future : stem + 을

Are there any exeptions (like verbs which stems end in ㄹ)?

Ex.
날다 (to fly)
Past : 하늘을 난 비행기
Present : 하늘을 나는 비행기
Future : 하늘을 날 비행기

As you see,
Once they were conjugated irregularly and treated as vowel ending stems.

나는 존야요. - I'm John./Speaking about me, I am John.
나가 존야요. - I am John./It is me and nobody else that is John.
누가 존야요? - Who (of all these people) is John? (trying to identify John from a group of people. Maybe people around the speaker are speaking about John and the speaker doesn't know who he is.)
누군 존야요? - Is John who? (there's no sense in this question because who is not something that a person can be.)
존이 누구야요? - Who is John? (Trying to get exact explanation about John. Maybe the speaker asked about John before but didn't get any answer, some other people have been introducted to him instead. Now he is trying to get know who John and only John is.)
존은 누구야요? - Who is John?/Speaking about John, who is he?

Quite good explanations.
누군 존이예요? would have a different meaning.
It means "Whoever is John? (Nobody is John including me)"

I'm a bit confused (or then I'm just tired... ) about difference between 누가 존야요? and 존이 누구야요?. Okey, if you use "the arrow theory" you get English translations "Who is John?" and "Who is John?" respectively. Please give me further explanation! The more verbose the better.

이 분이 그 유명한 가수이십니까?
Is this Person such famous singer?
그 유명한 가수가 이 분이십니까?
Is this person such famous singer?

이 분은 그 유명한 가수이십니까?
Is this person such famous singer?
그 유명한 가수는 이 분이십니까?
Is this person such famous singer?

And then one question about vocabulary: what is word that means 'wicked, evil, bad' in Korean? When I search for example word 'wicked' in Yahoo!'s dictionary, I get: 나쁜, 사악한, 부도덕한, 무도한, 못된 etc. Why are these words in prenominal form not in the normal dictionary form? 나쁜 is prenominal form of 나쁘다, right?

Right.
And we call them as 형용사. (literally 'adjective')
I guess that because the word "wicked" itself is already ready to be used.
As SiEd said, 나쁘다 is usually translated into "to be wicked"

[maxiewawa]

나는 존야요. - I'm John./Speaking about me, I am John.
나가 존야요. - I am John./It is me and nobody else that is John.

I was watching the movie "Iron Man" the other day, and it reminded me of the 는/가 dichotomy. By the way, we have the same problem in Japanese!

Iron Man is a superhero. He's actually just a normal guy Tony Stark in a hi-tech suit of armour. During the course of the movie, he saves the world (sorry to ruin the ending, but I'm sure you would have worked it out anyway).

Well, at the press conference, Tony Stark tries to address a crowd of reporters, all of whom are trying to work out who Iron Man really is. Tony has prepared a speech that gives him an alibi as to where he was at the time when Iron Man was out saving the world. He wants to keep his secret identity intact.

But on a spur of the moment, he admits it. He gives a wry smile and says "I'm Iron Man."

He's saying that he is Iron Man. If he was speaking in Korean he would have used 가.

Where as if he were just introducing himself to someone (Wolverine or Batman I suppose) he would have used 는. He's not pointing out that he is Iron Man, but just introducing himself.

If Iron man were to introduce himself with 가, the other person would probably protest: "I never said you weren't Iron Man!"

I'm not entirely sure that this post makes sense.

[manyakumi]

Great example, Max.

If Iron man were to introduce himself with 가, the other person would probably protest: "I never said you weren't Iron Man!"

I'd like to introduce a phrase which fits exactly on that.

누가 아니래?

[holdfast]

max, that is a great analogy. do you mind if i use it to explain it to someone else? ㅋㅋㅋ

[Silja]

Thanks again, everyone

Remember, 이야/야 is only used as a casual non-polite form for 이다. If you are using the polite informal -요 suffix, 이다 becomes 이에요/예요.

Huum. Thanks for pointing that out... I edited the correct forms in my previous posts, too, so that don't confuse other newbies.

Yes, irregular ㄹ verbs have their ㄹ removed before -는/-ㄴ is suffixed.

Is this the only exception here or are there also other irregularities? Just to be sure...

Hope that helps.

It does, thanks!

Quite good explanations.
누군 존이에요? would have a different meaning.
It means "Whoever is John? (Nobody is John including me)"

Is the meaning like 'I really wonder who this John is, I'm not John and there's no Johns around as far as I know". So you can actually use this as a question and it's no grammaticly inccorect? For example, can you then ask "무엇은 사과예요?" meaning "Whatever is an apple?" (When you have no idea what kind of miraculous thing this mystery 'an apple' might be)?

But on a spur of the moment, he admits it. He gives a wry smile and says "I'm Iron Man."

He's saying that he is Iron Man. If he was speaking in Korean he would have used 가.

Where as if he were just introducing himself to someone (Wolverine or Batman I suppose) he would have used 는. He's not pointing out that he is Iron Man, but just introducing himself.

If Iron man were to introduce himself with 가, the other person would probably protest: "I never said you weren't Iron Man!"

I'm not entirely sure that this post makes sense.

Oh, it does! And that's a good explanation, too!

Now I have to spend some time to get all this information sink in, so no more questions this time.

[maxiewawa]

Holdfast, I'd be flattered!

[javiskefka]

Yes, irregular ㄹ verbs have their ㄹ removed before -는/-ㄴ is suffixed.

Is this the only exception here or are there also other irregularities? Just to be sure...

It's not the ending that is irregular, but verbs whose stem ends in ㄹ, like 알다, 살다, 놀다, etc.

[manyakumi]

Is the meaning like 'I really wonder who this John is, I'm not John and there's no Johns around as far as I know". So you can actually use this as a question and it's no grammaticly inccorect? For example, can you then ask "무엇은 사과예요?" meaning "Whatever is an apple?" (When you have no idea what kind of miraculous thing this mystery 'an apple' might be)?

Exactly.
It will be more natural to say "뭐는 사과예요?" (Nothing is an apple)
And here is the better example to understand.

A : 청소 좀 해 주세요. (Please clean this place.)

B : 하기 싫은데요. (But I don't want to do that.)

A : 누군 하고 싶어서 해요? (Whoever wants to do that? : Nobody wants to clean so just do it.)

[Silja]

Thanks again everybody! I just keep wondering how much time and effort you spend answering my questions, I really appreciate that.

This time just two quick questions:

1. This one is about demonstratives: If 이, 그 or 저 + 것 = 이것, 그것 or 저것 then what is X: 이, 그 or 저 + X = 여기, 거기 or 저기. Is it something like 어기? If it is, what does it mean (a place?) or does it have a meaning by itself at all? Or are those (여기, 거기, 저기) just words on as they are, no compounds?

2. I'm a bit confused about 아니오 and 아니요. I've been told by a Korean person (who unfortunately doesn't speak very good English) that 아니요 is used as an aswer to a yes/no question and 아니오 is used as verb in the end of a sentence... I thought it was the other way around. Actually, I haven't see 아니요 that much, so I don't really know. What is the difference between these two (in meaning and in usage)?

[manyakumi]

1. This one is about demonstratives: If 이, 그 or 저 + 것 = 이것, 그것 or 저것 then what is X: 이, 그 or 저 + X = 여기, 거기 or 저기. Is it something like 어기? If it is, what does it mean (a place?) or does it have a meaning by itself at all? Or are those (여기, 거기, 저기) just words on as they are, no compounds?

They are just as they are nowadays.
But I guess that they were originated from 이 어귀, 저 어귀, 그 어귀.
어귀 is an old word which contains the meaning of the place that is not exact.

2. I'm a bit confused about 아니오 and 아니요. I've been told by a Korean person (who unfortunately doesn't speak very good English) that 아니요 is used as an aswer to a yes/no question and 아니오 is used as verb in the end of a sentence... I thought it was the other way around. Actually, I haven't see 아니요 that much, so I don't really know. What is the difference between these two (in meaning and in usage)?

He's right. (or she?)
아니오 is only used for a verb which means "is not" in the end of the sentence.
And 아니요 is for "NO".

[Silja]

He's right. (or she?)
아니오 is only used for a verb which means "is not" in the end of the sentence.
And 아니요 is for "NO".

She is she.

But when I look up those words from Yahoo!'s dictionary I get these examples:
"준비됐습니까?" "아니오, 아직 안됐습니다."
"아니오, 뭔데요?"
Why 아니요 is not used in these sentences?

"아니요. 왜 그러죠?"
Why 아니요 and not 아니요?

How does 아니에요 fit in all this? What is the difference between 아니오 and 아니에요? Are they different politeness level or something?

[javiskefka]

This whole 아니오/아니요 thing is pretty confusing to me too. I suppose since they sound so similar I just never worried about it...

After taking another look at it, here's the conclusion Ive come to.

아니 in the casual speech level or 아니요 in the polite speech level isa negative response to a yes or no question.

아니다 is the negation of the copula 이다 and it means 'to not be [something]'.

아니에요 is this word in the informal, polite speech level (해요체).

아니오 is this same word in a formal speech level that is not used very often (하오체) in spoken language with the exception of this word and by certain people.

When 아니오 is used in the place of 아이요 it is considered incorrect.

[manyakumi]

This whole 아니오/아니요 thing is pretty confusing to me too. I suppose since they sound so similar I just never worried about it...

Yeah, even Koreans don't distinguish them exactly.
So don't mind unless you are gonna take an exam such as TOPIK.

[yhenry]

This whole 아니오/아니요 thing is pretty confusing to me too. I suppose since they sound so similar I just never worried about it...

Yeah, even Koreans don't distinguish them exactly.
So don't mind unless you are gonna take an exam such as TOPIK.

Hi!
I think I can distinguish 아 니 오 from 아 니 요 .
Both of them mean 'no' only with different suffixes.
'오' is no longer used in today's speech except in a historical drama, like a King James word in English.
'요' is used any time politeness in speech is needed, like 가세요 오세요 먹어요, etc.

When you watch a historical drama, you will hear a lot of verb with 오 ending, like 아니오, 가시오, 잡수시오; they are polite form of speeches.
You will not hear anybody say that way these days, except someone being funny or mimicking a character in a drama.

이해 하시오?